On this special episode of I Know This Guy we have Undercover FBI agent Joe Pistone and Hollywood Actor Leo Rossi. You’ve probably heard of some of Joe’s life stories depicted in the blockbuster movie ‘Donnie Brasco’. We get into Both Joe and Leo’s upbringing and how they managed to cross paths in the film industry along with some of Joe’s wild stories while under deep cover.
Episode: 44
Title: Norman Farrar Introduces Joe Pistone, an American FBI Agent and Known by His Undercover Alias Donnie Brasco and Leo Rossi, an American Actor, Writer and Producer.
Subtitle: “If you’re a rat, then I’m the biggest mutt in the history of Mafia”
Final Show Link:https://iknowthisguy.com/episodes/ep-44-behind-the-real-donnie-brasco-w-joe-pistone-and-leo-rossi/
In this episode of I Know this Guy…, Norman Farrar introduces Joe Pistone, an American FBI agent and known by his undercover alias Donnie Brasco and Leo Rossi, an American actor, writer and producer.
In this episode, undercover FBI agent Joe along with Hollywood actor Leo discuss Joe’s life story and blockbuster movie depicted after his life “Donnie Brasco”.
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Norman 0:00
If I found them and I was with the other Bob guys, unfortunately he would have been dead. Because if at that time we locate them, and I can’t extricate myself from that, they’re gonna kill me.
Norman 0:28
Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of I Know This Guy, the podcast where we dive deep into the lives of some of the most interesting people I know. Before we get started, please like and subscribe to I Know This Guy wherever you get your podcasts. By the way, like kids want me to say something about ringing a bell. What the hell’s a bell?
Hayden 1:01
So we’re going undercover today.
Norman 1:03
No, we are not. We’re going deep cover and we’re going to be talking to Joe Pistone and Leo Rossi and if you didn’t know this, Joe Pistone was the real Donnie Brasco. They made the movie about him and now both of these guys are going to be on the podcast and we’re going to be talking about their life but also their podcasts well, which is really cool, called Deep Cover The Real Donnie Brasco.
Hayden 1:29
Yeah, I’ve been checking out their show in preparation for this.
Norman 1:32
It’s pretty cool.
Hayden 1:33
Great dynamic.
Norman 1:35
All right. So, what’s really cool is that we know the ins and outs of what not to do around mobsters now.
Hayden 1:45
Yeah, now I know for sure what not to do.
Norman 1:47
I think after this episode, we’re going to have the official guide, the IKG guide to what not to do around mobsters.
Hayden 1:56
Yeah. Straight from the source. Yeah. All right. Well, I’m super stoked for this one. Let’s dive in.
Norman 2:07
Alright guys, so welcome to the podcast.
Speakers 2:10
Thank you.
Norman 2:12
So, Anthony was teasing me. He was telling me a little bit about you Leo, how you guys met, and we’re gonna get into that in a second. But he said, Oh, man, I can’t say anything about this. But you’re gonna be introduced as you already know this guy and maybe Leo will introduce you and then when I heard who it was Joe, man, this is so cool. I cannot wait to talk and get just a little bit more into your past. How cool is that?
Leo 2:45
Joe, is if I could make the old commercial. Joe is EF Hutton. When he talks, everybody leans in.
Norman 2:58
All right. I get excited for podcasts. But this one I am really excited to get into. So especially the podcast is based on people’s backstories. Like, I just want to know about people. This started out just talking to my friends and saying, Well this is kind of interesting. Why don’t we let the world know about what you’re doing and each time I’m notching up, I’m notching up. Now, I got some really cool backstories here so we can get into that right now.
Leo 3:32
We won’t disappoint you.
Norman 3:33
Yeah. So do you want to draw straws or something like that to go first?
Leo 3:37
I jump in whenever they’ll get to me.
Joe 3:39
Leo’s the lead man.
Norman 3:43
Well, why don’t we start Leo, let’s get into your backstory. So where did it all start? What makes Leo Leo?
Leo 3:50
Well, first of all, you did say that you’re doing this type of podcast, but you’re gonna go into podcasts about the failures of people.
Norman 4:03
Oh, it is on this podcast, by the way, so get ready.
Leo 4:09
Now, I come from Philadelphia, the City of Brotherly Love, and if you believe that then I’ll say some swampland. Now I’m in Florida. But I had a radio show in college. So it was rock and roll but I never, because I was on a football scholarship and I never had the guts to join the theater. I could just see me on stage and all the Mamelukes on the football team, Hey Ross, Hey dogpile. Yeah. So I stayed away from that and then I went into business with my father, and when he passed away, I said, what do I really want to do and I packed my bags and went to New York.
Norman 4:58
So you had the acting?
Leo 5:00
Yeah, acting was what it was about for me. I enjoyed the mean, as much as I did the end. I see now these kids that don’t they don’t have a technique, they don’t have any strong foundation. Oh, there’s some fun ones out there, no doubt about it. But everything everybody wants right now, and I studied with Lee Strasberg. Yes, I did. Milton Kitselas, Peggy fury. It’s just when you know what you know, then you’re not daunted. If you’re acting with Bob DeNiro, or some young actor. You just pitch in, you know what you’re doing and I am blessed and Joe and I got into producing, he beat me to it a little bit and then writing too. How many books Joe?
Joe 5:53
Me or you?
Leo 5:54
The only book I had with the bookie down the block.
Joe 6:01
9.
Leo 6:03
Yeah and we did do, which is one of the highlights because I love the theater. We did a one man show that Joe and myself and Bobby Moresco wrote, Bobby Moresco, he won the Oscar for writing crash and it is a dear friend of ours and we pitched it to Joe and we always knew that would be because it was a one man show concept. We always knew there would be one point in time where Joe would ask us who’s playing me and it did come down the road. Right and he did acquiesce and I talked a lot you don’t talk much.
Leo6:52
It was a challenge.
Joe 6:53
So I have first met Leo right. I knew Bobby Moresco because I had a TV show, one season on CBS called Falco and Bobby was one of the writers and producers. So Bobby and I were friends and he introduced me to Leo. This is what 23 years ago, after the meeting Bobby said in New York, he’s from the west side and so you know how direct he is. So he says, What do you think of Leo? I said Leo, I like you a lot, but you fucking talk too much.
Leo 7:30
He said it. Yes he did.
Joe 7:36
It’s a 22 year friendship. So yeah.
Leo 7:41
I still drive him nuts sometimes. He reciprocates, believe me. He is so fastidious in everything he does and being on time with Joe is like being late. it’s like, what are you doing? Well, I’m here and we got two minutes. You’re late. He’s very well prepared and he’s got a great sense of humor sometimes can be as dry as you can believe. You won’t catch it till you’re out the door and say, was he breaking my balls or whatever. But it’s fun. It’s been a nice ride and now that we’re doing a podcast together, it’s been heaven. We really found a niche that Joe could really talk about all the heaviness that he lived through when he was a deep cover and we can still have fun too. So that’s what we do.
Joe 8:35
Yeah. What’s the name of that podcast?
Leo 8:36
Oh, yeah. It’s called Deep Cover The Real Donnie Brasco. It’s on Spotify. All the apple podcasts and jam street media, too. So you can find this anywhere and Joe comes up with some things not only just respect them even more and more, but that will curl your hair. Believe me. Yeah, he just didn’t talk the talk, he walked the walk.
Norman 9:15
Guys, we’re also going to be putting in links and we’re going to talk about the podcast during this podcast as well. One thing you didn’t say that you say Yeah, I got into acting. But you’ve been in over 100 films.
Leo 9:28
Yes, I categorize them as the good, the bad and the ugly. Nobody starts out with a crappy film. Yeah. Oh my lord. Sometimes it does turn out that way.
Joe 9:42
One thing Leo, it may have been a bad movie, but you never had a bad acting day and I don’t say that lightly.
Leo 9:52
Thank you. I give it my all. Joe and I are so on the same page with attitudes. Life’s too short. When people come in with these attitudes, man. Well, I’ve seen Joe dress people down. Yeah, who we’re pulling attitude stuff. Although the one guy that Joe and I thought, Oh my God, the director wanted him and I said, this is going to be a nightmare and Joe and I were producing the movie. Oh, no, no and I’ll let Joe finish the story. It was Tommy Lee, who’s the drummer for?
Norman 10:36
Motley crew, isn’t it?
He was married to Pamela Anderson. So take it from there, Joe.
Joe 10:44
I tell you what a gentleman. I mean, a real gentleman. It was funny because the first time I met him, and he said, I’d like to hang out with you. I sadid, you want to hang out with me? You’re the most famous drummer in the world and you want to hang out with me. But I mean, he was delightful to work with on time, never missed a beat, never not took direction from the director and he was Tommy Lee. So we were shooting in Pittsburgh, we had a big warehouse that we made into a nightclub and it just so happened that next door was a strip joint. Right? So it happened to be Bobby’s birthday, Bobby the director. So when we’re shooting at night, all the scenes were at night and in our club. About three o’clock in the morning. Here comes Tommy Lee with six strippers for Bobby Moresco’s birthday and had a dance for his birthday.
Joe 12:03
I’ll tell you what, what a gentleman. I mean it was for two weeks Leo, I guess, man about I am not a liquid problem and whenever his call time was, he was there.
Leo 12:19
He did a good job acting. Yeah it’s just and you see the other side of that, where actors make demands, and they sometimes I say, Well, now I know why actors get bad reputations. Some ridiculous thing. I’ll tell you somebody and I won’t mention the name Jon Lovitz.
Norman 12:43
Don’t hold back
Leo 12:45
I had a movie with this guy and it wasn’t a big budget. So you had a lot of interns running around and stuff, and we’re sitting in the director’s chairs waiting for a shot to be lit and he goes, Oh, you sound like that. What’s he doing? I wonder if the young interns come and he holds his cigarette up. He said, light this, and I was waiting for the punchline and the kid said, I get out and I went, did I really see that? Did you just do that? You don’t have the meaning that is. He goes, Hey, you gotta rattle their cages. I like to rattle him. I’m saying that right now.
Norman 13:30
Yeah, I was gonna say did you kick him in the nuts?
Joe 13:37
On the other side of that, I worked with Johnny Depp. More of a gentleman, I cannot say enough about what a gentleman. He was three and a half months shooting Donnie Brasco. Treated everybody equally, everybody with respect. Never demanded anything from the crew. I mean, so that’s the other side.
Leo 14:06
He stood up to the director once, did he Joe?
Joe 14;08
He did, yeah. Yeah, the director got on one of the actors for flubbing his lines and right in the middle of the scene, I mean, after the director tore into the actor. He said, I don’t want to hear you talking to any actors like that. He said, I flub my lines and I don’t hear you dressing me down. He said so, so I don’t want to hear it and there was some other other instances on the movie where on some breaks, they went to let the extras out of the off the set because it would have been hard to re dress and everything and when he found out he said, anytime there’s a break, and I leave here to go get some water, they better leave here and go get something to drink. I mean, yeah. So I don’t have anything negative to say about him as far as on the set.
Norman 15:14
Yeah. So Joe, we haven’t really touched on you at all and there has been some reference to Donnie Brasco. So, why don’t we get down that you are what the movie is all about Donnie Brasco.
Joe 15:27
Well, I was an FBI agent, actually, for 27 years and I was lucky enough to do some small undercover roles by first assignments and I was successful and I think the reason I was successful is that I grew up in Paterson, New Jersey and I don’t know if you know anything about Patterson. Paterson was a blue collar town, not far from Philly, and grew up in the neighborhood. So I had what I like to refer to as street smarts. What’s going on in the street , you know how to deal with people. Because that’s how you survive on the streets. So that made me successful in my early undercover operations. Because I knew street people. I mean, look, I grew up with guys that eventually became wise Guys, guys I went to high school with their fathers were wise guys at the time. They were mob guys, mafia guys. So none of that really impressed me, number one and number two, I didn’t have any beef against gangsters. You stay out of my way, I stay out of your way and that’s the way it was and I think when you work undercover, your attitude has a lot to do with your success, because you’re not going in in there with a vengeance or you’re not going in there with an attitude. You’re basically going in as a law enforcement agent, agent to do your job, collect evidence, hopefully get an indictment and hopefully put him in jail. So I worked with some of the tough cities, Jacksonville, Florida back in the day was like the wild west.. Back in the late 60s and early 70s, Jacksonville was a tough, tough city and then from there, I went to New York. We know how tough New York is. I actually worked in Philadelphia. So my education, though, was before I got into the FBI as far as street smarts and I think that helped me out a lot being successful in all my undercover operations. Most of my operations were long term, deep cover. So I had just come off a year and a half operation, it was out of Florida, where I infiltrated a group of thieves that stole heist, high end automobiles, or high end tractors and we had our own chop shop stolen, stolen, and morphed a lot. You came to us and said, Hey, look, I want a Mercedes. Alright, what color do you want? What do you want in any interior? What extra is your line? We go to the Mercedes dealer and hooked it at night and I did that for a year and a half. Then I got back to New York and my supervisor, an old timer. He was an old timer then but he was a New Yorker by the name of Guy, who had done undercover work in his day. I had an idea about starting an operation go against fences that we’re dealing with the mafia, because there are a lot of hijackings, a lot of high end loads, we’re going to probably losing 6-8 clothes a day, which is this tractor trailers, a lot of money in each one and the idea was to try to infiltrate the fences and then get to the mafia. Well, it so happened that I never infiltrated the fences but I got to the mafia first. I got first family I ran with was the Colombos out of Brooklyn and then I got into a beef with two guys, two Colombo guys which resulted in physical confrontations
Leo 19:15
You kick somebody’s ass Joe.
Joe 19:20
Well, I did. I couldn’t run with these guys anymore because it would have probably come to me killing them or them killing me because I did as Leo said, kick one of the guys ass then I hooked up with the Bonanno and is with the Bonannos for better part that five years and it was a total six year operation and I was successful enough that I was proposed for membership in a Bonanno family become become a made guy a mafia guy in the Bonanno family. But there was a shooting war going on in the Bonanno family for control of the family. I was in contract to kill one of the guys. If you saw the movie, three guys got killed. Well, they’re supposed to be four guys there. One guy didn’t show when I had the contract to kill that guy. I came close to find him. I never found him because he was on the lam anyway. So that’s when the FBI.
Norman 20:14
Joe, what would have happened if you found them?
Joe 20:17
Well, it depends on the situation. You have to know a little bit about the mafia, Norm. Mafia, you don’t turn down a contract. Your boss gives you a contract to kill somebody. You say, Okay, yeah, no matter if it’s your brother, your uncle, your father. You got to accept it. Otherwise you get killed. I tried to find him. I couldn’t find him. The FBI tried to find and they couldn’t find him. But if I found them, and I was with the other Bob, unfortunately, he would have been dead. Because if at the time we locate them, and I can’t extricate myself from that, they’re gonna kill me, and I ain’t dying for a gangster. I took my shot with the government and we did a pretty good job at mafia. We kind of dismantle the mafia. I think we had 240 convictions, testified and I think 17 trials. We pretty much brought the mafia across the country to its feet because I worked in Miami, Tampa, New York, Milwaukee, California, Las Vegas. In fact, at one point in time, I was offered the job by the mob to pick up that’s when the mob was skimming out of Vegas and I was offered the job to pick up the skin from Milwaukee. I mean, from Vegas, and take it to Kansas City to hand off to the mob guys in Kansas City, because then they distribute it to all the families. That was when the mob was really tight into Vegas.
Leo 22:00
I made a mistake early on, when Joe and I started hanging out together. I said so you were undercover with the five families? No, no, no, no, no, no. Undercover is one thing. Deep cover is another thing. Explain Joe.
Norman 22:18
Yeah.
Joe 22:20
Well undercover is you go into the office every day, you do your regular cases, you might have an informant that knows where some, you might be working drugs. You might be working stolen commodities, whatever. You have an informant that knows somebody that he can put you with. So, either you buy the drugs, he introduces you as who knows what, but you’re supposed to be a bad guy. After you make a couple of deals, you arrest the guy but you go home every night, you go into the office, you have other work. That’s undercover. Deep undercover is when you come up with a new identity. You never go into your office. You don’t carry any identification that identifies you as an FBI agent, or your identification is in your undercover persona. You move out of your house, you get your own residence, you get your own house and once you infiltrate that group, that’s your whole existence. Socially, you don’t have any contact with your family except by telephone. You might get home once every six, seven months, and that’s deep undercover. You only have one individual within the organization that you deal with, that you pass on your information to and that’s what most people can’t do. Because most people can’t deal with gangsters on 24/7 and that’s what you’re doing. It’s a different mental outlook, you’re going to have a different mental toughness to go into long term deep undercover because you’re buy yourself out there with the gangsters that you infiltrated.
Norman 24:04
So talk about a method actor.
Leo 24:07
Yes. Oh, yeah. No, he’s Olivia. Believe me, he is Olivia.
Joe 24:21
There’s no retakes in deep undercover.
Norman 24:24
But what are the chances that they could, alright, so nowaday, it’s probably a lot different than before. But I’m sure they’re going to do their research on some new guy, that’s just coming in, what are the chances of them discovering that?
Joe 24:39
The chances are very good, but that’s why before you go on there, there’s a lot of preparation and you’ve got to know your target group. You got to know everything about that organization that you’re attempting to infiltrate because knowing their do’s and don’ts will help you infiltrate plus it helps to keep you alive. One example when I go back to the beef I have with those two guys in the mafia, the mafia has an every criminal, every criminal group has rules and the mafia has rules. They tell you how they want you to dress. They tell you no long hair, no beard, no mustaches.
Norman 25:24
So I guess I’m out.
Joe 25:29
Yeah and things that will get you killed in selten, a mafia guy in front of other people, physical laying your hands on a mafia guy and when you’re in these type undercover situations, you’re going to get into beefs, you’re going to get into verbal confrontations, because everybody doesn’t like everybody. I mean, it’s not a Kumbaya world. So you’re going to get into confrontations, physical and verbal and what you have to remember in the world, there are two things. Maintaining your respect and maintaining your credibility. If you lose your respect out there, you’re done, you’re done. So, when you get into a beef with somebody, and you know that he’s a mafia guy, you can verbally go back and forth. But you can’t go over that line where you insult them. Because then he has the right to go in and get permission to kill you. Take a step further, what else will get you killed as you can’t physically put your hands on a mafia guy. So obviously in a lot of situations, that verbal confrontation is going to lead to a physical confrontation, he gives you a slap. You can’t do anything, you got to stand your ground verbally and take that slap. Because once you lay your hands on them, you’re done. You’re done. So there are a lot of things you have to know about your group. In that situation, I knew which guy was the main guy, which guy wasn’t, he was just like me. So that’s a guy that I slapped and I punched. Now, if I had punched the other guy, then they would have just, he had the right to kill me on the spot. So there’s a lot to go into making up your bona fide ease and your legend and now it’s tougher because of the internet. There’s got to be something with somebody’s name on the internet. So it takes years to build up a good resume.
Leo 27:34
We’re gonna have on our show coming up, we did have a little bit of a in the first season. Joe has the tapes and it’s all been cleared. Most of the people in prison for life are dead and we play the actual tapes of Joe when he was undercover and it’s fascinating and he’s accepted just like one of them. They confide in him and everything. But I will say you talk about restraint, I don’t know how Joe Donnie Brasco, strangle, kill, shoot Lefty . I don’t know how he did it. Just tell him what lefty does.
Joe 28:23
It took all I could muster. The guy he’s one way, that was Lefty, everything was about Lefty. There wasn’t anything that wasn’t about Lefty. But he was a good teacher, he taught me more about the mafia than I ever knew than anybody else, gave me an example. He had a root canal done and man, for a week all I heard about what it says root canal. It just so happened. About a month later, I had to have one. It was like, it didn’t make a bit of difference. I mean, I can’t even explain it.
Leo 29:07
Joe doesn’t smoke and Lefty’s, Oh my God.
Joe 29:12
He smoked English ovals and we’d be in Miami, Florida and he didn’t like air conditioning. You couldn’t have the air conditioning on in a car and we’d be driving around Miami with no air conditioning and I turned the air conditioning on, he turned it off. I turn it on and then he’s besides that he’s smoking English ovals one after another with nowhere and I mean, it’s all about him.
Norman 29:41
Oh my god.
Leo 29:44
The tapes, when you hear it. Joe paints a vivid picture of Lefty in all the situations because he was the one that really taught Joe a lot, right? It’s when you say well, I wonder how Lefty would sound. This is a bad imitation but when you hear on the show the real thing. Donnie, Donnie, Donnie. What do I gotta tell you? How many times? Me a pocketknife? What are you talking about? I don’t know how he did kill him.
Norman 30:11
So Joe, you were talking about when you’re talking to a mob guy. I mean, you had to take a slap in the face, you had to sit there, and you had to just take it and eat it all in. Leo, did you find that in acting, when you were working with some, where you’re breaking in, you had to take a bunch of crap from other actors, or producers or directors?
Leo 30:38
Yeah look, I used to be 6’2. I don’t know if I’m still 6’2 and but what directors do not all of them, they can’t go at one of the lead actors for one movie, they find the weak link, and then they unload on that person and I’ll never forget early on in my career, and our director was alone and this guy is an actor. He was having trouble in lines in the beginning, his mark and everything and it was like, I just said, I want to leave them alone. I mean you only make matters worse. I got a call from my agent when I got home at night. He said, what is wrong with you? What do you mean? He said, You told the director and in front of me that you showed them up? He said, you’re not your brother’s keeper. You got it? You want to survive in this town, you’re not your brother’s keeper. So consequently, I had to pull back when attacks were made on other people and I did not have many attacks at me directly. If a director wants to do the psychological game with me, I’ll play with it. Okay he says something. Geez. I thought you were Italian. I thought Italians were good lovers. You kissed her like they were kissing out of the wall. Okay, I can deal with that. All right. But when they cross the line, and they get really into something that breaks the line, it’s still very difficult to stand up for other actors. Tough. Yeah. Look, there are things where, if you were doing a scene with an actor, and there was a Canadian actor, I won’t mention his name. Nick Mikoso, who we had this big intense scene in Stingray, I was blind Vietnam vet, and he was this and that and usually, the characters you’re off stage, when it’s the other guys close up and then he’s there for you when it’s your close up and that’s the way the etiquette of acting is. So we had this big five page scene and everything. He had his close up and then we were filming in Vancouver and then it came around because they got to relate the camera to mine and I saw the script girl there with the script. I said, where’s Nick? Oh, no, he had to catch the flight back to LA. See, Bob Dinero wouldn’t do that. Bob Dinero is there for you. Jodie Foster is there for you. I mean, the pros are they want you to be good. So consequently, the whole scene works. I mean, Anthony Hopkins is the good one who wants you to be good.
Norman 33:57
Right and get the most out of you.
Leo 33:59
Yeah, absolutely.
Norman 34:01
So I got a question for both of you. This is going to come off weird, I think. But it’s for both of you because I want to play it up to acting and so Joe, you’re undercover, you’re deep undercover. Leo, you’re going and you’re becoming a let’s say a mobster. Okay, so you’re learning. At any time, do you guys ever go Wow, I could cross over and do this. For Joe, like meeting and learning about not just Donnie Brasco but any of the roles that you played, did you ever go wow, I’m close. I could convert. I could cross over.
Joe 34:45
I never thought like I thought I could make a good gangster.
Norman 34:50
It never came across your mind to go to the other side.
Joe 34:54
Yeah, never.
Norman 34:56
Did you know a lot of people that when they’re because it seemed to me, if you start seeing the lifestyle, or the money, or whatever it is, people might be drawn in and that’s why I also wanted Leo to talk about this as well, because you’re studying, you’re learning about it and all of a sudden, like, I know in a lot of mob movies, they’ll actually bring the mobsters in to play certain roles and then now you’re schmoozing and okay, maybe this would be an interesting career change.
Joe 35:29
Yeah. Have some guys gone over? Yeah, exactly. Sure. But the guys that I know very few, very few, from my agency. I mean, I can count on my one hand and I can’t tell you how many 1000s and 1000s of undercover cases we had over the past 30 years. But I can count on one hand, how many guys went over. But I found that these were guys that didn’t grow up on the streets. You know what I mean? They didn’t know life. Look, before I went into Naval Intelligence before I went into the FBI. I mean, I grew up on the streets. I was a bartender. I played cards, I shot craps, you know what I mean? So none of that stuff was enticing, because other than being a thief and everything like I say, I gambled, I went to the racetrack, I went to backroom crap games down in a neighborhood. So, no.
Leo 36:37
Yeah, with being an actor. It’s a fine line, because I like to get deep into the character and I do know guys that are in the life and it’s like, I never asked questions that I know is going to either, or tell me something which I don’t ever want to know. Right? Once I was riding in a car with a mobster. He’s on the phone. I’m on my drive, and this and that and then boom, boom, boom, right? He’s doing it real slick. Like, now you did what you did. Now you don’t. But he’s not really putting themselves in line. Right? So he hangs up. Now I’m dying to ask him what’s going on now, right? He turns the radio up and he goes, he won’t make it to Easter.
Leo 37:33
Missing mass. So yeah, it’s a dicey line. But even in acting, I mean, everybody’s got it. They go, I have an ego. But that’s not why I was in it and I think Bronx Tale, Joe, that told a story of who was the hero? Was it the mob guy with the pinkie rings and all the respect of the neighborhood? It was the father, what the father does for a living.
Joe 38:04
Drove a bus.
Leo 38:05
A terrible bus, he was the hero. Because it’s easy to cat around and so on. But yeah, people seem to like it on the screen. I always thought that the mob movies became the westerns because they don’t want to make it westerns anymore and the outlaws and the rule of the West.
Joe 38:37
Everybody thinks it’s a glamorous life because it shows that on TV and the movies. I mean, I don’t watch much American television, be honest with you, I watch foreign television. But you see these guys, everybody’s dressed every day in a suit and tie. I mean, that’s ridiculous. They’re in palatial offices. I mean our social club was the bar or a candy store and every day you wake up thinking that today is the day I go to jail, or today is the day I get killed. That’s what you wake up thinking and every day is a hustle. Every day’s a hustle about money. I mean, it’s like it’s a one to more these guys don’t have ulcers or to go into deep depression. I mean, really, I mean, everything is a hustle every single day.
Leo 39:41
Joe said something that when he said it, I think it should be put if you go into a social club or something, right. It’s mob guys, you cannot do what to them. You can embarrass them. Unbelievable. You can’t embarrass them.
Joe 40:05
Can’t embarrass a mob guy.
Norman 40:02
Wow. So, how’d you guys meet?
Leo 40:06
Through that, Mr. Bob Moresco? Yeah, Bobby Moresco who, as neat and fastidious as Joe is. Bobby, well even when he went when he was up for the Oscar and he won it and they give you your own PR card and they fit you because they want you to have it that look in January. I swear he got the suit at Robert Hall. Joe would have been London and they were having what did we come down where we.
Joe 40:44
You know how prim and proper the English are, right? So we’re in a high class hotel and he goes after breakfast and I mean, I had on sweatpants, and a top a jacket but nice. He goes down with a ripped off T shirt and ripped off jeans, not jeans shorts. Hey guys, he said. Are you staying at this hotel? But you gotta love Bobby. Yeah, we met through Bobby because as I said, Bobby was a writer and producer on my TV show. We were in New York, right? I mean, in California, writing and everything and he needed a role for a lawyer, a mob lawyer and Bobby had cast Leo and that’s how we met over actually in Bobby’s office. Leo came over to read the script and everything.
Leo 41:53
Yeah, it’s interesting. A big thing in Hollywood is when you’re done a project. Okay. All right. Well, listen, when we’re back in town, we’ll do lunch. We’ll never see each other again and some of them you never want to see again. Yeah. But Joe and I just tie in backgrounds and he is in Patterson, I was born in Trenton, New Jersey. They have on one of the bridges. Trenton makes the world thanks. I mean, you got Paterson, New York, Trenton, Camden. Oh my Lord. You want to go get killed someday, go to Camden. Now that’s not right. It’s changed, I think. Maybe not that much. Guys, but yeah, it’s been a good ride. I’m blessed. I think we did a couple shows in Toronto. I love Toronto.
Norman 42:52
I’m just two hours north in a place called Innisville by Barry. Just on the lake.
Leo 42:58
Yeah. All right. I think I’ve spent five years of my life if you want to put together all the different things in Canada. To Calgary, to Toronto.
Joe 43:11
Toronto is a great city, I think.
Leo 43:13
Yeah, it really is. Yeah. I used to call New York north, right?
Norman 43:17
That’s what they used to call it. Yeah and Hayden’s in Montreal.
Leo 43:23
Hey, I gotta ask you, mate. Hayden, I did a picture of Montreal. Who are the people in Montreal kidding? They want to be seceded from Canada. Where are they going? To roll a front. But yeah, no, the one thing I did, a miniseries In Cold Blood based on the Truman compone with Anthony Edwards, or Rick Roberts, and oh, Sam Neill. Right and we were trying to recreate Kansas in the 50s. So we were in Calgary and we drove about, I don’t know, maybe a half an hour outside of town and we came across this town, right and I went in and I looked and I went, I got to talk to the production designer. I went to the production and I said, this is just the way it is in the book. This is incredible. I said congratulations. He said I didn’t know anything.
Leo 44:36
So Calgary, Alberta, BC. Yeah. I tell you though, I did the show. Is it really?
Leo 44:51
But I will say that I went to the Calgary Stampede. That was unbelievable. Oh my god. The best cowboys in the world man and they have buck races, with the thing and I think the one year I went Sam Neil took me in. It was like, people die falling off of horses getting trampled and everything. But I’m so glad I saw it just once.
Norman 45:16
Yeah, it’s pretty cool. Did you get to see the stagecoach race?
Leo 45:20
Yes. Yeah, that’s dangerous.
Norman 45:21
That’s dangerous. Yeah.
Leo 45:24
Yeah. I mean the Cowboys from Argentina and Italy and honestly, okay. It’s just not our cowboys and stuff like Calvary was wide open. Yeah, wide open. Yeah. But I have good memories, good memories.
Hayden 45:43
Thanks for listening. That’s the end of part one. Make sure to tune in later this week to hear the rest of the interview. As always, make sure to like and subscribe to the podcast. It keeps you up to date with all things I Know This Guy and helps us grow the show. Anyway, that’s enough for me, and I’ll see you next time.
