Experienced motivational speaker, coach and supervisor with a demonstrated history of working in the law enforcement area and investigations industry for more than 25 years. Skilled in Motivation, Stress Management, Leadership, Crisis Management, Intelligence Analysis, Operations Management, Government, and Law Enforcement. Four times IRONMAN triathlon finisher, climbed high mountains up to 7000m, marathon runner.
Awarded by the National Olympic Committee of Bosnia and Herzegovina for promotion of the sport values in 2016. Man of the year in Bosnia and Herzegovina for 2016. by SNL magazine. The NORSEMAN finisher. Strong operations professional graduated from University of Sarajevo, Faculty of Sport Sciences and Physical Education. PhD candidate, University of Sarajevo, Faculty of Criminology.
Date: August 27, 2020
Episode: 17
Title: Norman Farrar introduces Tomislav Cvitanušić, an Investigative Unit Supervisor & Motivational Speaker, Coach, Triathlete, Mountaineer & Climber, and a Long distance runner..
Subtitle: Peace is a wonderful thing to appreciate and be grateful for.
Final Show Link: https://iknowthisguy.com/episodes/17-tomislav-cvitanusic/
In this episode of I Know this Guy…, Norman Farrar introduces Tomislav Cvitanušić, an Investigative Unit Supervisor & Motivational Speaker, Coach, Triathlete, Mountaineer & Climber, and a Long distance runner.
He has survived the war in Bosnia and the experience taught him to live life fully by helping other people and appreciate the simple things in life. He has climbed treacherous mountains and participated in triathlons like Ironman and NORSEMAN to see where the limits are of the human body and the mental preparation to do things.
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Tomislav 0:00
Now, I’m the biggest Peacemaker in the wall because I experienced all those nights, the muddy trenches, the death and everything else. Peace is a wonderful thing but again what we were talking about people are taking that as granted. The generations, the freedom and the peace and the life. I mean you’re free to say whatever you want, you’re free to go out and no one is going to to take your life away. It’s a big thing, and we should appreciate that.
Norman 0:43
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of I Know This Guy, the podcast where we dive deep into the lives of some of the most interesting people I know. Before we get started, please like and subscribe to I Know This Guy wherever you get your podcast. By the way, my kids want me to say something about ringing a bell? What the hell’s a bell?
Hayden 1:20
Hey guys and gals this is Hayden Farrar, producer of I Know This Guy, make sure to visit iknowthisguy.com where you can find blogs shownotes transcripts of all the episodes and even a slick selection of merch. I’m really pushing to get I Know this Guy bebs up there, so make sure to check back for that soon. If you’re feeling super generous, you can even buy us a coffee through Patreon, check out our Patreon page @patreon.com/ikowthisguy. Thanks so much for your continued support. The show really wouldn’t exist without you and that’s enough for me. Now for the rest of the show.
Hayden 2:00
So dad, who do we have on the podcast today?
Hayden 2:03
Well, do you remember Matt Shed?
Hayden
Sure do.
Norman
Matt, this was his referral. This is the most interesting person he knows. And he knows a lot of people. So we did a little bit of research and looked up. Tomo, gosh, Cvitanušić .
Hayden 2:23
Nice. Nailed it.
Norman 2:25
I think Tomo would say I got his name correct. We practiced 100 times. But anyways, Tomo is an incredible guy. He’s got a great backstory. He lived through the Bosnian War. He’s got some really incredible, inspiring, just the way he lives his life. He’s got some interesting quotes, but the way he lives his life, and what he wants to achieve every day is pretty incredible.
Hayden 2:52
Amazing. Well, I can’t wait to dig into this.
Norman 2:55
I was talking with Matt Shed and I mean, I thought he was probably one of the most interesting guys I’ve ever known. And out of all the people that he said he’s known in his life, he said, You got to get in touch with you. And I went to your LinkedIn page and I went, Wow, I got to touch base with you. So I am so glad you answered my email and we’re connected now.
Tomislav 3:19
Well, thank you for inviting me. Matt Shed, he’s a fantastic person, and I’m really glad that he recommended me for the I Know This Guy so looking forward.
Norman 3:30
Yeah, I can’t wait to hear your backstory. Can you tell us a little bit about you?
Tomislav 3:36
Oh, yeah, I was born in Croatia. I was raised in Bosnia. I spent some time in the muddy trenches during the war in Bosnia. It was my choice. The things in life happen sometimes without you choosing them but it is what it is. Then after that war experience, I realized that we will not live for 200 years. Actually life is just a journey from point A to point B and I try to think how to fill that journey with interesting things and to explore. To find a little bit about the others about myself and about life so it was just logical the results of the life thinking what I did, and speaking about my activities and everything else.
Norman 4:29
So you’re not going to get away with two paragraphs about your backstory. Like right off the bat, let’s just hit on Bosnia. Everybody knows about the war, maybe a lot of people don’t but I remember the war. It was crazy Yugoslavia, friend against friend, neighbor against neighbor. What was that like? I couldn’t even imagine one day you’ve got your neighbors and the next day you’re fighting them.
Tomislav 4:59
Speaking about Yugoslavia falling apart and Yugoslavia consisted of the different Republic’s that they had a certain level of the independency within that. The Federation and unfortunately, everything starts falling apart and more happened, how we react, humans, you deny the reality because I was studying mechanical engineering. I remember that April 92, I was in the middle of reading a book about Keith Richards, his autobiography for the Rolling Stones and then the other day you are in the middle of some kind of conflict. So, first you deny that and then later on that you realize, it’s not the bad things that are happening only to the others. Sometimes the bad things happen to us as well.
Norman 5:55
So, during the war, it’s coming to an end, things get resolved. And then what? Where do you go? What do you do?
Tomislav 6:05
Well, first, I was lucky enough to survive because many people get killed, many people get wounded. I went through that, the war time, with a lot of luck and I survived. So you can decide after being in that situation to suffer from PTSD, or to try to reset the values and start to appreciate the things that sometimes we take for granted. So, I used to live without the water without electricity during the war, because Sarajevo was under siege, and that’s the longest siege in modern history. almost four years the capital of the one country is under siege, and it’s not medieval age. So, the deal is that you start to appreciate the small things and I just reset the list of the values and make the new chart in order of the importance. So you start with the basic things like a fridge, food, water, hot shower, and you enjoy the small things. And if you start from that point you can learn a lot and you can enjoy life every day, day by day.
Norman 7:24
I remember Sarajevo, just years before the war, they hosted the Olympics, the Winter Olympics, right?
Tomislav 7:32
1984 the Winter Olympic Games and the first gold medal for the US in men’s skiing. It was a Bill Johnson. I think downhill. So I remember that like I was a kid and people were happy Kirk Douglas visited Sarajevo and all those. The Hollywood big faces and unfortunately the eight years after that, you’re in the middle of something that you couldn’t even imagine your worst dreams, but it is what it is. Life is very unpredictable so there are no guarantees for tomorrow morning. These days we are facing with COVID-19 and if someone told me that last year, I wouldn’t believe it’s gonna happen. But that’s the reality so let’s be prepared for everything.
Norman 8:24
So I want to hook back to the war and what was it like? How long did it take from a hint of people getting ticked off to when it started?
Tomislav 8:38
Actually, you could feel that but no one expected because it’s hard to believe when you live in a western wall as Bosnia used to be before the 92 you could travel anywhere. You’re not behind the Iron curtain so just a regular country who proclaimed independence and everything was peaceful and it’s hard to believe. Sometimes you deny reality and you deny some facts that might lead you to understand and to get some conclusions. But I believe it’s human nature to deny or accept the conclusions that we don’t like. And we could smell it, we could feel it, that there will be problems but no one wanted to believe in that. So we were just saying it won’t happen. It’s no, it’s impossible and then one day you find out that actually the Sarajevo is under siege. You cannot leave the town and then some small coffee starts in the suburban areas and you are in the war. You have to tune yourself into the new environment and figure out how to survive. That’s about the war. I think it’s very important to send the message and also to whoever has any war experience is a big advocate for peace because whoever is telling you the stories, it was kind of cool or being in a muddy trenches or shooting someone, or being in conflict. It’s not true, simply, it’s suffering a lot and now I’m the biggest Peacemaker in the wall because I experienced all those nights, the muddy trenches, the death, and everything else. Peace is a wonderful thing but again what we were talking about, people are taking that as granted. And the generations they just the freedom and the peace and the life. I mean, you’re free to say whatever you want, you’re free to go out and no one is going to take your life away. It’s a big thing and we should appreciate that. We should appreciate that because there is always conflict on the planet earth at a certain place. For my entire life that there is a war somewhere. Unfortunately, It was also my turn to participate in. I was watching on TV some kind of war zones before and now we also have war zones. So I really wish the old soldiers go back home and survive and people live in peace. That’s very important, very important.
Norman 11:18
Just hearing you say that, I’ve known a lot of people who, exactly what you said they glorify it. And yet the people that I’ve heard talk about glorifying war, have never been to war.
Tomislav 11:33
I can talk about doing something for your self defense. That’s fine, that’s okay but shooting someone, shooting at the human being is everything but not glorifying. No one wants to experience that and that there is nothing glorifying about killing the human being regardless of the differences between ours and political views and the ethnic background, whatever. It’s not the thing that you can glorify and talk in a positive way about so the peace is a wonderful thing. Freedom is beautiful so the people should remind themselves every morning if they’re free to appreciate that and to live in a free society and it’s very important. It sounds silly sounds like a basics but it’s important
Norman 12:28
I hear him in our culture. Everybody’s worried about, oh, what did Kim Kardashian do? Oh, I broke a nail. Oh, I did this. Oh, I couldn’t get my favorite chocolate bar.
Tomislav 12:39
I mean that’s okay and let people enjoy it but at the same time, they shouldn’t forget about some basics. I cannot live a good life if there is a hungry person next to me, if there is an unhappy neighbor next to me. I can’t be fully satisfied in my life, if the person next to me is suffering, and that’s also very important. And now we are talking about the Black Lives Matter, and all the stuff that’s happening. We should be a little bit more human and think about the others. We became just selfish creatures in the money oriented societies and that’s how we live our life, point A point B. Mortgage, money, look at yourself, forget about the others and at the end of the life, you started just starting asking yourself, okay, you’re rewinding a little bit try to understand what’s happened in the past, and then many people will will see the big, big, huge hole without any content there and that’s that said,
Norman 13:51
Over a period of a couple of weeks we saw this incredible uprising, and peace for the most part peaceful protest with black lives matter. And over years, it took a bunch of tragedies. But finally, it hit a cord where people are standing up, blacks, whites, you name it all marching together and trying to change what is the norm right now in North America. I don’t know where this is gonna go. I really don’t know. I thought, oh, a day or two but now we’re going on, I guess two weeks. We’ll see what happens with this but here’s another big change that is going to be happening in the West and it should have changed 200 years ago.
Tomislav 14:39
Yeah. Thinking about that right now is actually kind of the first thing I had on top of my head was to read again, that Resolution of the UN on human rights. That’s a very short document, maybe two pages. And it’s very clear. All you need to know is to read that UN Resolution on human rights, everything is there and just live life based on those things that are in two pages, maybe three pages. It’s very simple. But in order to change the world, you have to change yourself, and change management and how to change yourself. Many people resist because how to mitigate that bias that you have within you. You have to be aware of yourself and to make the changes to make yourself a better person, and of course, to create possibilities for you to do extraordinary things. Because we’re all humans, we all have bodies though, our inner organs in our arms, legs, we are all the same. I mean, who cares about the color of the skin or ethnic background or culture. It’s not a big deal, but we’re all human beings and we can all do remarkable things.Unfortunately, we don’t do that often.
Norman 16:09
It was pretty cool. A few years back, I got to know Allen Iverson and his whole entourage. They were a great group of guys. And I know that Allen’s got some heat on him about things that he did, or some things that were published in the media. But the way that I know, Allen Iverson is an incredible guy and incredible human being. And I didn’t know I’m from backwoods Canada, and I really didn’t know what was happening, especially in the US in African American or hispanic, minority communities. And after hearing what he was telling me and some of the guys about their life, and him growing up in nine people in his house, he had no sewage. He walked around with rubber boots in his house that his mom had an addiction problem. He still was able to become this incredible, incredible athlete and I couldn’t walk a mile in a shoe and it went on to give me a life lesson. I have no idea until speaking with the guys about issues with education, issues with just role models. What can you do to survive? So, you become a sports athlete, you work at McDonald’s, you might get through and sneak through the university. But for the most part, you didn’t have a lot. You were either a criminal, sports athlete or working in fast food and by criminal, you could be selling drugs, it could be worse. And it was an eye opener to hear all the different stories about what was really going on, that I was sheltered from and that was my wake up call. And when I start to hear people a lot of people that don’t know what they’re talking about, especially in these times right now with the protests, and for the most part, peaceful protests. I speak out that people just don’t know what’s going on and I don’t think I can talk. I’ve never walked a mile in their shoes, just like I’ve never walked a mile in your shoes in Bosnia. I don’t know what it’s like to be in a war. But anyways, I just thought I would take my two cents added in there. Take over the show and start talking so now it’s back to you.
Tomislav 18:42
It’s a great story but just reiterate what we were talking about to appreciate the small things and you don’t have to suffer. Just remind yourself to appreciate the small things and you can definitely be a better person and treat people in a better way. There is always room for improvement and that’s also something that people think that when they graduate, the gas, diploma in universities, doing the job, becoming parents or whatever, they think that they finish that cycle. But actually, there is always room for improvement because it’s a life learning. From the moment of birth until the moment of death, you can always learn something. You can always hear something well and try to change a little bit. Actually, everyday, you can be a little bit better person than yesterday. So let’s just try to do that. Easy.
Hayden 19:44
If you think about it, there’s also ways of going about day to day life that will make things worse for you or attitudes that can make things worse for you. And just things that can make things much worse for you if you just have the wrong mindset or you kind of get in a cycle of thinking that way. Right? And then if that’s true, then you must also be able to have the mindset where you can do or get through things in a better way. Or if you change your mindset, just slightly to view things in kind of a cycle of self self improvement, then odds are, you might be able to get through something with a more positive attitude. And then if that’s true, there must also be ways to get to the point where you’re getting through each day in a much better way. Do you have any other suggestions of maybe how people, say even with COVID like how do you get through day to day with that mindset about self improvement?
Tomislav 20:38
Yeah, exactly. What I’m trying to do is that whatever I can do, I will do that. But there are certain things that you cannot change so people worry about something that they cannot change. In that case, change your focus, and do something that you can change. I mean you can do anything about the bees in the Himalayas or pandas in China realistically, but you can do something from your side. So find something that you can change that could be the poor neighbor that you can see every day and maybe start just bringing up the piece of bread if you can afford it, or just bring a little bit of light into everyone’s life because that’s the point. So it would be the easiest would be if you turn around yourself, you will always find someone who needs your help, who might need your assistance, and who might be suffering and not telling anyone. So maybe we should be just a bit better human beings going back to war experience, the way how the people treated each other during the war is much better than during the peace because during the peace we are focused on work. During the war you cannot impress anyone with your car with money or the house, and you can impress people with your kindness and readiness to help. When things go back to normal, whatever normal is, then you worry about the house, about the job, about the things that are actually not important during that time. So that would be interesting if we can take something from that period and implement it in everyday life. I mean, kindness doesn’t mean that you are weak, it doesn’t mean that you’re submissive, just, just be nice to the other. It doesn’t hurt.
Norman 22:42
I’ve never thought about it that way. People being more kind or better individuals during war.
Tomislav 22:49
How we treated each other. It was really the neighbors and everyone. It was unbelievable. Really. I know It sounds silly but that’s the reality. I’m saying this from the first hand so, yes.
Norman 23:09
Hey Toma, we just finished up with a technical glitch and I want to get back to your back history. So what happened after the war and what got you to where you are today?
Tomislav 23:22
We started rebuilding the country and going back to just regular life and looking for jobs and finishing it. Whenever we had to finish it University in order to create that environment that is good for everyone. We’re doing pretty well that there are always people who are unhappy. But realistically those people who are unhappy if you put them wherever you put them they’re going to be still unhappy so let’s not worry about this kind of people. Now about today’s modern country before the COVID, we had a huge increase of the tourists coming to Bosnia. Because it’s really hidden in Europe with the beautiful nature of the mountains, the rivers and tourists are becoming more and more so hopefully after the COVID that things will go back. Because tourism is something that we can offer to the world. We won’t be making notebooks. We cannot just leave that to Japan or other countries who have developed that industry. It’s a beautiful place to be. It’s a little bit different. The food is great, people are really nice and we’re just back to normal life. And if somebody is complaining about the economy, it’s not such a big difference. If you go around in Europe, people are struggling everywhere in the world at this time. So that’s it and I found myself looking for some other interests and exploring the limits of the humans, how far we can go, how high we can go, and how stubborn we are. So, I’m gonna put it that way.
Norman 25:17
Okay, so let’s explore some of those limits.
Tomislav 25:21
Okay, cool. Well, I always wanted to climb the high mountains. I always wanted to do the things that I was thinking were impossible. There is one quote like a mantra. I’m saying to myself, always. And actually, it’s coming not from the the Roman time or the Greek philosophy. It’s actually an industrial guy, Henry Ford. He said that, if you think you can or you can you’re probably right. So that’s a very simple rule. I wanted to try a lot of things to see if I can so I decided to climb some high mountains. I decided to do some long triathlons to see where the limits are of the human body and our mental preparation to do some things. And it worked pretty well so far.
Norman 26:27
Tell us about some of the mountains you’ve climbed.
Tomislav 26:29
Okay. It started first with the hills around my city, because I wanted to see how it looks like to take a look at the valley. And after I checked that box, I decided to climb the highest mountain in former Yugoslavia, which is in Slovenia. It’s a beautiful place and also a beautiful place to visit to go there to travel with the friends then decided to learn a little bit more about more about the climbing techniques. I signed up for the survival school. I graduated and got certificates as a climber, and then I decided logically to go to climb Mont Blanc or from Italian side they called it Monte Bianco and I went to climb Mont Blanc in France. I did it but there are so many mountains the higher and better and bigger suddenly stopped over there. Then I climbed the Elbrus in Russia, which is officially one of the Seven Summits and then we decided to go to South America to climb Aconcagua almost 7000 meters with our feet ease because we have metrics here, not Imperial. And after South America, it was logical to continue with the climbing to try Matterhorn.Matterhorn is not that high altitude but it’s a deadly mountain and you are all the time exposed to the cliff. Actually, it’s a pressure. It’s a mental pressure climbing the Matterhorn. You plugged it in the day you go up and down. But they all the time don’t look back and then look down. It’s really, I wouldn’t say but the level of the fear is always at the appropriate level. Let’s put it that way. So after climbing Matterhorn, your appetites and just you know the raising and growing. I decided to climb Denali, which is the coldest mountain in the world, and they say there’s the best preparation for Everest. I knew that it won’t be easy because you’re on your own is a very fair game but it’s so harsh speaking about the weather at Denali in Alaska, there is some polar circle. It’s microclimate when it is changing all the time. You depend on many things and I climbed Denali with my partner, and we were a good team. And that’s very human because you don’t have the internet, you don’t have a car, you don’t have the things to impress others, you have your partner, you have the tent, and the mountaineers you meet on the way there on the way back. That’s all you can see. Luckily we made it to the top of North America and we did it and it was a great experience going back to that story. Then after that you appreciate the bad, soft matters. Hot shower, you just open the fridge, grab a food, or if you want to have a coffee, it takes you a few seconds. In a tent in the Denali, it takes you one hour to melt ice to get some water and then it’s freezing. I tend to make some coffee and it takes a lot of effort. So whenever I have that coffee in the local coffee shop, I really appreciate it and it’s a great thing. Just a completely coffee’s great thing.
Norman 30:01
So little things come back to life. Huh?
Tomislav 30:04
A little things come back to life and that there is always my mom. She asked me why I’m doing that. And I didn’t know how to answer it. But then I realized, ust to be grateful, because when you’re climbing Denali, you don’t have any luxury that you have to think about, about your partner, about yourself to do everything by book or by a plan. Think about the high, the altitude to avoid any mistakes that could be really kind of like danger. So you’re just grateful when you finish it, and you’re very grateful for the small things that you have in everyday life, and I like it and I’m going to do the mountains again and again, as far as I can go.
Norman 30:57
I don’t know. I’m thinking about traveling over to South America going back doing the Matterhorn, flying over doing Denali. There’s fees that you’ve got to pay. I mean, you’ve got to be either extremely wealthy sir, or your wife’s gonna kill you.
Tomislav 31:14
No Well, for the other part she won’t kill me but you know your family. You have to convince them first that you’re doing something that they can accept and live with because it’s not easy to let someone leave and then you don’t hear from them for days. Satphones sometimes work, sometimes not. Speaking about expeditions and travel, I always did it budget friendly, which means that we never took guide so you can take guide and there is nothing wrong with it but with all the details on our own, and speaking about logistics, and there are always people and companies and friends who can help you to go for the expedition and to fund the expedition because they want to hear the good stories. They want to be a part of the good of the story and speaking about the sponsors and companies, it’s not that if you’re if you’re doing the right things and take care of your partners, it’s not that it’s not that problematic to find the people who will support you and to meet the budget requirements for the southern expeditions, but still traveling to South America on our own without the agency guy, the owner the fancy things. It’s not that big money it’s mainly just, let’s say the cruise soundware for a week, and some fancy ships.
Norman 32:45
Yeah, you were talking about strategy in planning it out in budget, but it’s very similar to life or even to business. If you don’t have that clear path, business, it might be a business plan or but if you don’t have a clear strategy to get from point A to point Z of, it’s a lot tougher and climbing a mountain is probably exactly the same if you don’t execute it properly in it could be fatal.
Tomislav 33:12
That’s exactly so the climbing mountain is not a joke. First you don’t do that by yourself. I mean, you can, that was the point. So you do that in a team. First is the creative team that could be two persons could be five persons, whatever. But if you are a team, you will take care of each other and it’s a great metaphor for life. You don’t climb on the top yourself, you take the people with you, or you’re going to team to share that joy. It’s not always the joy, not always happiness. Sometimes you share the sorrow and the sadness but being in a team and doing it with friends and someone who you appreciate is really great thing. Of course the plan has to be in place for the Denali we printed out. We had it on our electronic devices sometimes they don’t work on the low temperatures. We printed out a copy for each member of the expedition and plus we had a few in a backpack, just in case we needed them and every day you read it through you check where you are was the next step you discuss. Plan is there but you also have to be flexible depends on the weather and the circumstances how you feel. But speaking about the going and picking up the altitude, there are certain rules, physiological rules that you have to follow in order to survive because you can adjust climb, you should go a little bit up and they go down, spend the night and then go up again to just that’s acclimatization. you have to figure out a way that you can feel good and reach that reserve altitude and you have to be very patient about it. There is no rush over there. You have to be very patient and very calm. And it is possible, I’m not saying that this is extraordinary. Anyone can do that, who is willing to learn and who is willing to put some effort and invest some time to learn the skills to prepare themselves and to work hard to achieve it, so anyone can do it.
Norman 35:27
Now, there must have been some curveballs along the way. What are some of the surprises when climbing a mountain that you just went, Holy crap, I can’t believe that just happened.
Tomislav 35:39
So many because I did make the top of the Denali in my second attempt. The first attempt was a failure because we reached, let’s say, halfway. We figured out we had a problem with the gas. We had a problem with the burners in the morning and it’s told that you need to melt the ice, you cannot survive. You need the water and there is no tap water. You cannot buy water there in the glacier. There is no one. It’s just a white. So you have to think about the equipment and also you know the friend of ours who didn’t feel good he go back to the base camp after a few days and he forgot to leave us the ice saw that you need to cut the ice blocks to protect your tent during the night because of the strong wind and the temperature, you have to work hard to make that big ice blocks and you need ice saw for that and he took the ice saw with him and he forgot to pick it up. So we had to turn back. I said to myself, I’ll be back and I was back. So in the second attempt, I climbed to the top lesson learned and experienced is a great thing, or what I like about the client being that no one can guarantee you the top. You can try, you can do your best but if the bad weather is there and you have your airplane tickets, whether it’s a round trip to go back home, you have only a certain number of days you have to go back for work. So if the weather is bad, you just go back and be thankful for the mountain and maybe next time that’s it. We are too small compared to nature, we should just respect it.
Norman 37:27
Right. And the type of training that has to go into this so each level I mean, you can climb a foot Hill then you’ve got Denali, Everest. Are there different types of certification or how do you train for Denali for example?
Tomislav 37:44
I think that mental preparation is the most important or equally important as physical preparation. Speaking of physical preparation, you have to be in a good aerobic state speaking about your body and to be ready for the efforts. To carry the heavy backpack and to pull the heavy sleds because you pull the sleds and you have the heavy backpack, about 60 kilos total of the food, gas and all other logistics and you carry that for a day’s uphill. So maybe it was working out regularly, being in good shape and having some good habits, eating well, but at the same time developing the skills to find someone who is better than you. It’s always good to spend time with the people who are better than you in some segments. So you can learn something from them. It’s a good thing to become better in some areas to improve. So physical preparation, but also mental preparation to be prepared for everything. Bad weather, stays in a tent for three days in a row that you have no room over there, just wait for the storm to pass. But there is night but there is always a day, there is rain but there is always a sunny day. So sometimes you have to be a little bit patient in life, it’s in life on the mountain and the good times will come after the rain. There will be always a sunny day unfolding. In Forrest Gump, he was in the rain for months but there was a sunny day one day.
Norman 39:22
So that sounds like it’s almost words to live life by. Try to find somebody better than you. You’re at least that’s for my business, that’s how I run the business. I’m not trying to do it. I don’t have to be the one making the decision. I’ve ever learned from somebody so I can fake it and pretend I am but in your case, if you fake it, you could die.
Tomislav 39:44
Exactly! Those sorts of price’s really high. You don’t fake it over there and it’s very fair game and I like it. There’s no room for faking at all so It’s very authentic and it’s very honest. So that’s what I like about it, you have to be honest and fair first yourself, and then to the others in order to succeed. Then you can do everything, everything and you can still fail but it’s a life you don’t count how many times you fall down, you count how many times you stand up. I haven’t met a person yet who just has good things in their lives. Everyone has had his ups and downs and that’s what life is about.
Norman 40:41
You have Everest on your agenda?
Tomislav 40:43
I’m thinking about Everest about the north side, because the normal route that people are using, it became so commercial. So all you have to do is be the wealthy to pay enough money to try to fly. Of course, many of them didn’t climb the Everest because they don’t have any previous experience compared to Denali where the rangers, you have to fill in the request with your CV and write down what did you find before so they can make a decision and give you the permit to climb Denali so that’s why I think Denali is really kind of great mountain and greatd system there. For Everest, the north side is challenging. There is a fair game so no luxury tents with crystal glasses and the wine served in the base can. It’s not what the real climbers like. There are wealthy clients who want to do that. I’m not a client, I’m a climber so that’s a big difference.
Norman 41:49
And with you, I mean, climbing mountains wasn’t just one type of adrenaline that you loved. You’ve gone on and you’re a triathlete. Is that correct?
Tomislav 42:01
Yes, that’s correct. Yes.
Norman 42:03
So tell us a little bit about that.
Tomislav 42:06
Speaking about the climbers and the triathletes. It’s not adrenaline, adrenaline is when you jump after a few hours of lectures. When you do the jump from the airplane, the parachute or do the bungee jumping, that’s adrenaline. You don’t invest so much work into that, just a moment. For climbing, you have to spend the years learning about it and then you don’t know yet if you’re going to get that adrenaline. I wouldn’t say that I’m on adrenaline. I’m more or something that you have to invest, a lot of effort, work hard, wake up early in the morning to achieve your goals. So the triathlon is also another fair game that no one can take you to the shortcut because you have to swim and you have to ride the bike at the end, you have to run. I was thinking that back in the time, the half marathon would be really, which is 13.1 mile, that would be really kind of a great achievement. First time I did it, I was reading about it and I had that runner’s blues. That two days after that, you start asking yourself, what’s next? Because you just did half marathon, you achieve that goal. What’s next? Of course, the next is a marathon. And then you work hard to run a marathon and then you see the thousand other people in New York. 40,000 people running marathons. They are not aliens, they’re just human beings like we are. So I work hard, I train and I run marathons and then after running a few marathons, then you ask yourself, I mean, that’s okay. But what else can we do? And there is a sport where the people are swimming, and cycling and then at the end, they run a marathon. So the marathon is just the end of that story and you were mapped by 2.4 miles swimming and then 100 miles cycling. So I said, I looked on the internet and found that many people are doing that so why not give it a try? So I started working out, full throttle. I did one arm and then I did another one. Let’s improve the time then I wasn’t happy with the time. Maybe the third time would be the better one so you’ll find yourself a little bit addicted to that stuff. Because it’s very fair you don’t even take anyone from it and don’t take anything from anyone except your time. It’s a very humbling experience. It’s a very humbling experience. If you swim in the ocean for 2.4 miles then you ride this bicycle 412 miles and at the end, where you park your bicycle, you have to run a marathon. It sounds silly, sounds impossible. But so many people do it and it is possible if you work hard to achieve it. Yes, anyone can do that but there was another Ironman race, a famous race in the world called NORSEMAN, extreme Ironman. So if you do the Ironman 1234 then you’re looking for something, push your boundaries even further. So I got a slot for NORSEMAN. I signed up most of the people who are signing up for norseman are doing that just to say, Yeah, I signed up but they didn’t give me a slot but you did your due diligence so you signed up and you are your man, fortunately, or unfortunately. When I signed up, they gave me a slo so there is no way back, you have to go. What’s funny about NORSEMAN is that there is no support during the race. You start a race jumping from a ferry in the middle of the fjord and water is so freezing, it’s at dawn, it’s still kind of dark, sunrise and then you swim that 2.4 miles you ride a bicycle over the five mountains in beautiful Norway where accumulated you can uphill several thousand meters and then at the end you run a marathon. The big part of that route is uphill there is a place called the Zombie Hill where we run marathon proportional. Why zombie hill? because the runners look like zombies on that hill, so they cannot even run. They just walk and they look like zombies, literally so it’s a Zombie Hill. And I’ve been told that I was also looking like a zombie at the Zombie Hill so it’s true, I can confirm.
Norman 46:53
What was the hardest part of all of that? You’ve got the three, so what was the toughest?
Tomislav 46:58
The jump because the ferry was opening. The moment you jumped, you saw that on the internet, you heard about it and it’s so cold. But the moment when you have to jump from the ferry in the cold fjord is the moment of the decision. After that you don’t have time to think about, do you like it or not because it’s survival. So when you’re in the water in the cold water, you start swimming, and you just became that survival creature. There is no hand holding or sugar coating. It’s just jumping into cold water and swimming. It’s basically it. That’s what you were looking for. You asked for it. It is what it is so you just do it. What I like about NORSEMAN is they don’t advertise the race. Because when you open the website, it says clearly this is not for you, full stop. Then you start asking yourself, is it for me or they are going to tell you if something is for you? But when you finish the race, you understand, you realize this is for you. But they advertise the race saying this is not for you and it’s hard to get the slot because so many people would like to prove otherwise. So that’s funny about that race, but it just shows us how capable we are as human beings. We can do much more if we want to do that if we want to invest some time and work hard. But sometimes we are just, we’re just lazy.
Norman 48:42
I’ve done a polar bear jump in, jump out, that was enough, I’m done. Well, for you to go and swim two and a half miles, how does hyperthermia not set in? Like you’re in freezing cold water and It doesn’t take long for hyperthermia to kick in at all. How did these guys do it? How do they get two and a half miles?
Tomislav 49:08
I believe that we are right on the edge of the hypothermia. Also you’re moving, you have the wetsuit, and you’re allowed to wear the wet socks but you cannot cover your palms and you cannot cover your face, which is more than enough for you to feel very uncomfortable. And after maybe the half mile I couldn’t feel my palms and I was thinking something is going wrong with me. Is it a stroke, it was kind of numb? Then I check around and I see the other swimmers there around me. So I just thought to myself, we are in the same amazing system. Same for everyone, It’s very fair so just keep swinging and then I just keep swimming. We go out, no one died. It was cold. It is an unbelievable experience but after that, can you imagine how much I liked the hot shower. For the rest of my life I will enjoy and appreciate the hot shower, simple hot shower.
Norman 50:16
I’ve lived in Kona, I’ve been able to watch the Ironman going down to Lehi Boulevard. Lehi Boulevard is where the seven mile stretches to the final and they also come down and I saw this one guy. It always stuck in my mind like I’m sitting there on the beach eating bonbons having a drink. Here’s this guy going by. He’s literally got to go to the end of the road and come back and he’s got seven miles to go and I saw his calf explode. He couldn’t do nothing about it. He got as far as that and all of a sudden, like I was watching and this cactus went boom. He started pulsating and he went down and he’s trying so he didn’t finish the race. He couldn’t finish the race. We were trying to watch to see if he could make it and turn it around. But you take a look and all the training in the world couldn’t prepare that guy for something he couldn’t control.
Tomislav 51:15
That’s what happened on Denali, the first attempt on triathlons, the flat tire or something, you can just get injured. I was lucky that I finished every race I got in. But I’ve seen a lot of that around and you have to be prepared. Because it’s a life and you cannot plan and go for the best and you can do the best you can do. But there are no guarantees that you will, you will finish or something wrong will happen. I think that’s what I like about it. It’s very human. It’s very fair. If you climb, maybe you can reach the top but be grateful for that. If you raise in triathlons or Ironman races or NORSEMAN, be grateful for every moment of that. You don’t know how it’s gonna end up and in the end how the people call it the destiny. We know how our lives will end up one day, we don’t know about tomorrow. We cannot change the past but we can do something now. And that’s important to know about and let’s hope for the best but what’s gonna happen is gonna happen.
Norman 52:29
Well, living in Kona, there’s a lot of therapists or different types of wellness people like there’s, you name it, they’re there for triathletes, what I’ve seen, it’s after the race, so going through the race is one thing, but living after the race’s done for the first while is pretty tough. With the cramping and everything else that can happen with a triathlete now doesn’t matter how good you are. But what’s that like? You just don’t go, Oh, I just did travel, I’m gonna go have a steak, and I walk away and then you go on to your next thing. How long does it take for you to recover?
Tomislav 53:10
Well, it’s from person to person. Depending how ready you worked for the race, how hard work you invested in that race, some people, they recover after a day or two, some people it takes them seven days or a month or someone just got sick of that effort that they say, this is the end, this is the last time. And this is what I say to myself every time when I finish a long race. I say, when I finished the race this is it, no more. And then after you change your mind you say, maybe I can try it and we’ll see because you’re so tired and you know the sore muscles but it takes some time to recover. Usually you go back and try again. That’s the beauty of it, that you don’t even stop.
Norman 54:08
So you’ve got so many things that have happened in your life. Can you talk to us a little bit about what you would consider your biggest success and why?
Tomislav 54:18
Four years ago, I was reading an article in local media about the blind boy who stated it was interview with him that the persons who have problems with the vision and the blind persons, they participate in a sports, it’s called gold bow, something like that. But they are hitting the balls that produce the sound so they can actually try to score and they can hear the ball coming to them. And he stated in that interview, that blind boy that maybe can relate or become friends. He stated that he would like to be in the sport, but there is no one who can help him to train him. And I have my rule that certain number of hours during the week you can always give to someone else, otherwise, it will be just wasted you will oversleep or just spend time on the couch or just do something so I decided to make a phone call to that local media and I got a number from that guy. I call him his name is Mustafa. I called him and I said, let’s meet for coffee, I would like to propose to you something and I told him that I want to train him for a local half marathon race. He said but I’m blind. I said don’t worry about it. We’ll just invest $1 for the shoelace and that’s all we need to run together. That shoelace will help us to stay connected and we will use it to run together. After that we work three times a week for six months and he runs Sarajevo, the half marathon, after six months as a blind person, one of the very first in the region here. And it was an inspiration, not only he’s fired not only the persons with disabilities, he fires the people who have any problems and health issues, just to move and to make things in a different way. To work it out and to run 5k-10k or half marathons. So Mustafa and I remain friends and he is studying now. Everyone knows him in this country. He became very popular because he’s a very smart, intelligent young person who will graduate next year in law school in Sarajevo University. He might be also the first blind lawyer that we will have in the country. So I’m very proud that I was part of his life when I called him and asked him to join me so we can work out together. For him to run a half marathon. My plan was to teach him about life and to mentor him. It turned out at the end that I learned a lot from him so I can say that I became a better person. I spent six months with a blind person working out three times a week. I think that I became a better person with that experience and we are still in contact. From time to time, we go together, eat some junk food, because from time to time you do that it’s okay. And that’s my biggest success speaking about. I mean, we can put climbing and triathlons and everything on the one side but being with such a young guy and a beautiful person and smart and helping to do something extraordinary, is actually my basic biggest success.
Norman 57:59
And that’s why Matt recommended you be on this show. Yeah, what a way to live and donating your time and effort to just being a good person and helping others. So that’s incredible and one of the things that I liked about what I heard was how much you learn, you put out the effort to help somebody, but what did you get back? And that just happens. It magically happens when you go out there and help others so that’s cool. Congrats. I’m going to switch it over and say, alright, so you’ve got the success, what’s been your biggest struggle? I say failure and I always want to be very clear on this. When I say failure, this is for people just to understand that it’s something that you weren’t able to do or something that you learn from. It could be an educational hurdle but what has that been in your life?
Tomislav 59:01
Well, it won’t be easy for me to answer that, because my life philosophy is that the struggle and failures is just education. What’s the definition of success? What Winston Churchill said, the definition of success by Churchill is, Going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm. And that’s really the definition of success by Churchill. So, speaking about failure, it was just the lessons and one of the very important lessons that turned out to be really good was the failure first time attempting to climb Denali, making the tough decision to go back because you invested a lot of time knowledge, some money, and you have to go back and you didn’t allow that ambition to overcome you and to put your median life in dangerous situation. I was able to make that reasonable decision and I told myself, I’ll go back from Alaska to Europe, not going to the top and I might be back, who knows? And I was back. So I just believed that one day I’ll be back and I was back. But the first time when I tried to climb Denali, it didn’t work, but it doesn’t mean that I was discouraged. It’s just the lesson because there are many failures ahead of us and you, people who will be listening guys, failures are part of life and definition of success, not losing enthusiasm.
Norman 1:00:43
It’s funny that you say that because, Hayden, if every person that we’ve had so far on the podcast, there’s one word that basically comes up.
Hayden 1:00:53
Resilience.
Norman 1:00:56
It’s uncanny 100% of the people have come on here and said that one of the keys in their life is being resilient and that quote just basically sums that all up. One of the other things, we were doing a little bit of research on you. I didn’t know you until I reached out and we started talking but one of the interesting things that we saw we couldn’t translate. We tried, right, Hayden?
Hayden 1:01:21
Yeah.
Norman1:01:23
You were on a TED Talk. What was that all about?
Tomislav 1:01:27
They were doing the TED talks in Sarajevo and they asked me to talk to students and to young people. And I gave them the lecture, they did a good job, couldn’t find it. I gave them the lecture about the time in their life and a number of the hours they have during the one week. That’s what we’re talking about me working out stuff and training for the half marathon. So I was just telling them that they can plan their time and use their time wisely. But they should always reserve or allocate a certain number of hours for someone else in their lives. And that it’s a must. It’s a must because it’s really a great feeling. It helps us to be better to develop as a person and also the possibility to be exposed to something that will really benefit later. What’s happened to me with Mustafa, with a blind young man, that I learned a lot because he has explanations about a certain thing that we take just as normal. He told me that once I asked him, What would be the biggest difference, and we are at lunch, I said, “What the biggest difference between me and you?” You cannot see, I can see and I’m very grateful for that. He said for you this lunch is we just go out for lunch. For me going out for lunch is a project because I have to step out, I have to move to the public transportation or, or meet you somewhere come to the restaurant if there are stairs or something and it’s really unbelievable experience. So I was saying to those young people in the TED Talk how to plan their time, to be wise about it, to read, to learn the workout, spend time with people they’re supposed to do with the parents or the partners spouses, girlfriends, boyfriends, whatever, kids. But at the same time, find some of your time and give it to someone else. It is really important and it was well received. Those people were very happy. So if I made the difference that one or two of them, I made the point and it was well worth it.
Norman 1:04:07
Yeah, I hope one or two people listen to this, it’ll change your lives too. So much right now is all inner, well look at social media, it’s all narcissism, look what I did, look what I did, look what I did. But now what you can do to help somebody else so I’m going to take that up as a challenge. I’m going to try to do that as well because I don’t do enough of that.
Tomislav
So great.
Norman
That is going to be a challenge and I’m going to get back to you and let you know what I’ve done. I don’t know how to say you’re,I’ve tried it about 30 times, your last name. Please, first of all, let everybody know how to pronounce it and how to contact you.
Tomislav 1:04:48
Okay, my name is Tomislav Cvitanušić Don’t try to pronounce it because you guys break your tongue. And, of course, I’m over there and Instagram or Facebook. Looking forward to hearing from you.
Norman 1:05:10
It’s been great having you on. Matt said, you got to talk to this guy. He’s the most interesting person I know and I know a lot of people and you have been so thank you for coming on the podcast.
Tomislav 1:05:22
Thank you for inviting me. It was really an honor for me.
Norman 1:05:27
Hey, guys and gals. This is Hayden Farrar, the producer of I Know This Guy. Thanks so much for listening. We really hope you enjoyed the show. Make sure to tune in next week for our interview with Elena Sarris. Elena is a former attorney and comedian and now he’s considered the queen of Shopify so make sure to check it out. The growth of this show relies on word of mouth recommendations. If you want to help us out, feel free to share the show on any of your favorite social media channels. really helps expose us to a wider audience and can even help us find more awesome guests for the show. Thanks so much. I’ll see you next time.
