On today’s episode we speak with renowned arranger, composer and musician – Dori Caymmi. Dori Speaks to us about his early life and where he found his roots in music. We also touch on how he found himself arranging for many of the albums that help define the MPB movement in Brazil during the 60’s and 70’s. We even hear a little about his brief run in with Miles Davis!
Date: December 8 2020
Episode: 34
Title: Norman Farrar Introduces Dori Caymmi, a Brazilian Singer, Songwriter, Arranger, Musician and Producer
Subtitle: “Save the rainforest and black lives matter”
Final Show Link: https://iknowthisguy.com/episodes/ep-34-painting-with-sound-w-dori-caymmi/
In this episode of I Know this Guy…, Norman Farrar introduces Dori Caymmi, a Brazilian singer, songwriter, arranger, musician and a producer
In this episode, Dori tells us about his early life and where he found his roots in music. We also touch on how he found himself arranging for many of the albums that helped define the MPB movement in Brazil during the 70s and 80s.
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In this episode, we discuss:
Part 1
Part 2
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Norman 0:08
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of I Know This Guy, the podcast where we dive deep into the lives of some of the most interesting people I know. Before we get started, please like and subscribe to I Know This Guy wherever you get your podcasts. By the way, my kids want me to say something about ringing a bell. What the hell’s a bell?
Hayden 0:40
All right. So dad, who do we have lined up for the podcast?
Norman 0:44
Hey, we have an incredible guest today. Do you remember Marcelo Bratke?
Hayden 0:49
Yeah, of course.
Norman 0:50
Well, he contacted us the other day, and he said, Look, I’ve got another person to talk on the podcast and this is Dori Caymmi. He’s a musician, composer. He’s worked with some of the top Brazilian musicians, but also world class jazz musicians. Some of the albums that he’s produced. It’s incredible.
Hayden 1:15
Yeah. I can’t believe it. Especially looking at his discography, there’s some of the biggest names in jazz. So yeah, obviously, I’m super stoked about this one.
Norman 1:23
A matter of fact, I guarantee you’re gonna take over some of this interview.
Hayden 1:27
I have a feeling. All right, well, let’s dive into it.
Norman 1:33
So welcome to the podcast, Dori.
Dori 1:36
Oh, thank you very much, thanks for the invitation. I’m glad that I’m speaking.
Norman 1:45
We’re really happy to have you on this is a surprise actually because Marcelo Bratke, he mentioned that he knew you and all of a sudden it was Wow, okay, we got to get you on to the podcast. So I can’t wait to dig a little bit deeper into your life and into your backstory to talk a bit more about, I always say, what makes Dori, Dori. So can we just kind of dig into your backstory a little bit and, just go back to when you’re a kid and maybe some things that made you get into music?
Dori 2:22
Yes, my father, Dorival Caymmi, like you call, because I’m not Junior but he was Brazilian composer, great artist and my mother was a senior using the same name of Stella Maris. It’s like a star of the sea or something like that. Don’t ask me for translation. Anyway and we grew up in a very musical family, we lived together since I was five years and so we are three three kids, not kids anymore, I’m 77. But anyway, we started, my father had like three different styles of compositions, always Brazilian. I grew up listening to the ocean, the songs about the ocean of the sea, the fishermans, it’s fantastic. I got so into it that I became a musician for sure. My sister on the other hand, the sandbar can sound like you’re being style a little more not really bossa nova, but sound to me, we call some of the can sound it says slow sound but relaxed and my brother Danilo, the youngest one he likes Samba. So those are the three different styles of my father. So that’s why we became musicians and singers and that’s because he brought us music all the time. We heard Sarah Wong, Beniamino Gigli in Italy or French composers, and classical music. So every information came from him and from my mother. So it was a beautiful musical beginning of our lives in Rio de Janeiro. He was from Bahia State that gave us a lot of great musicians. Like João Gilberto, you know from the Bossa Nova guy. We were a very musical and happy family
Norman 5:04
I have to apologize that there is a slight delay because of my internet, I think. But anyways, yeah, do I sound okay?
Dori 5:16
Okay. Yes, you sound okay, you’re gonna sing in my next album.
Norman 5:21
Oh boy. Yeah, that’ll happen.
Hayden 5:23
Let’s hear it Dad.
Norman 5:24
Yeah, you know what? If I ever broke into a tune you’d be running.
Norman 5:34
So you came from a musical family and not only a musical family but very well known musicians and I know more about your dad, was your mom a professional musician as well in Brazil?
Dori 5:49
She was a singer and she gave up the singing and married my father and that was my mother. A tough one.
Norman 6:04
Uh oh. I won’t go down that path.
Norman 6:09
So now that you’ve studied your family’s musical, did you get any education? Like musical education? Did you go to college or school for music?
Dori 6:21
No, not really. I was a terrible student all my life, I don’t know why. But I didn’t have this tolerance to hear some person tell me what to do musically. So when I was seven years old, my father sent me to one of the best teachers in Brazil. Lucia Bronco. Yeah, right there and said, why do you want to play piano? I want to play the Clair de Lune Debussy song and she told me, Oh boy, you have to get the points, then you can play Debussy. You know what? I can play the beginning and I play the bla bla bla bla bla bla bla, she fired me immediately. She called my father and said he is going to be a musician, but never a piano player. So during my entire life, I was a bad student, terrible student and so I didn’t go to school or university. That’s after the army, which was mandatory. I started to produce in a range and so I gave up the call, everything for the music, to work, to make some money and we’re always looking for a little more static, like a buted and faithful to the positions in terms of music. So I love the other rhythms from the world. I just don’t like people to try to imitate in Brazil, like a Brazilian rapper or rock and roll. So that called me a little too much conservative about it. But I gave up and I became a producer and arranger and in love with adult Johnny Mondale’s of Jones and worked with them. So I’m a very happy person.
Norman 8:42
So let’s talk a bit about that. Can you give us a couple of stories about producing and working with different people, famous or not just some interesting stories?
Dori 8:54
Well, in the beginning, the first album offered another great composer from, I don’t know if you heard about him, Caetano Veloso.
Hayden 9:04
No, I’m not familiar.
Dori 9:08
His first album, with another singer Gal Costa. I did my first arrangements at this time for this particular album called Domingo and the sales were terrible. But anyway, it’s very beautiful. The singing and everything. The next album of Gaetano they called me again, and he was trying to inch the songs of my father, my father’s song, so I refused and I needed the money at the time. But I refused because I don’t like that kind of, not because it’s my father. You feel right something. It’s like I heard that the people want to change the books of Mark Twain. I was like, I don’t like that, too. So I learned a lot from music. A lot of singers that I used to love and dance and sing and have finally and work with them. At the end of this whole process of United States editor respect, as a musician, from a lot of my heroes and that was beautiful for me, it’s like I’m in heaven.
Norman 11:43
I can only imagine what it would be like, going and working with people that you admire, and being able to take part in working or producing albums, you mentioned, sort of on Johnny Mathis. I mean, just huge names in the industry. I’m wondering, like, you’ve been part of the industry through, like, so many changes. Are there any common factors that you’ve seen in music that stands the test of time?
Dori 12:11
Yeah, I think music gets weird, but comes back always. Today, we have more like, that took care of the whole business. So the thing became, like dancing and singing and with a lot of people on stage and very expensive shows and we became worse, wants to be an artist, so, but anyway, music always come back. I think so. I still believe that we are going to have a separation from music and the way that they see now as basically as entertainment and a lot of our stuff and I believe in this small group of people listening to it better than dancing and having beer and I’m not against it but it’s not my thing. I think I believe music is still capable to open up all the, I don’t know how to say it, but you can be there like Gilberto, still very responsible for the way that we see music in Brazil, Jobim became a statue like my father. So people build them statues. But I don’t want to be a statue. I just want the music to keep going the way it is. We have less promotion stuff. People, there’s a lot of just Brazil right now. Oh, Rihanna, has a lot of that kind of music in Brazil right now. Yeah. So there’s funk, rap and pop songs like, rock and roll, but it’s not affecting new generations of musicians. They have the option to hear from the other side. Oh, well, I think it’s fair. There’s a lot of people with talent in Brazil, but they don’t 1000s of people on stage. They don’t have the money. So it’s a little tougher, but it’s working. It’s working. We still have a lot of people here in Brazil with talent to do the other side. Yeah, because they love it. Yeah.
Norman 15:18
I’m not sure if I’m gonna say this properly, but what about like, are there any common factors that you see in musicians or composers that make them successful?
Dori 15:29
I’m talking about my generation. It’s probably the third generation of real Brazilian is by the hour of music, and their event and styles have music from Africa. I have some stuff that in the Northeast of Brazil, my generation has at least 15 important composers and very successful composers like Milton Nascimento, there’s many, and they’re very known in the business. I hate to call business, but that’s the way it is. It’s a business, but my generation is probably the best with a lot of promotion, basically, because actually now, like I said before, there’s no way that people can promote the kind of music that we make. It’s a little difficult for the young people doing music in Brazil. So we have my generation have a lot of come and a lot of togethers, they, oops, yeah and from the Lord Jesus, and Rio now, because Rio was the cultural center of Brazil for many, many years. So you have your Jobim, and so everybody came to Rio de Janeiro to become somebody else. To hear my father, Gilberto, also the guy that wrote Brazil. So every composer, every writer, painter, almost all of them came to Janeiro to live and so that’s why my generation is very well prepared, musically. So very successful. I don’t know if I answer your question, because your English is so beautiful. Mine is terrible. I understand sometimes, I do not. But anyway, there’s a lot of, in my generation, there’s a lot of the same ideas musically for work, I think it’s the last one that the press said something about.
Norman 18:19
So the other thing I’m really curious about, you’ve been involved with music all your life. Where does your inspiration come from?
Dori 18:29
Difficult question. Yeah, I don’t know. Every song that I write, basically comes from the way that I play, I play like an orchestra, an instrument, it’s not only chords and stuff, they have to have a meaning. So my guitar in each song is a different combination of chords. I started there, but my inspiration is still nature, basically, the one that they’re trying to buy now in Brazil, and unless I was asked for a quote about life and I said that, Save the forest, and Black life matter. So those are my inspiration comes really from those that came before me and like, I have my father’s generation before him and that came to play the Brazilian popular music after the Empire or something, I think 1920 more or less, so those guys are the basis of my music and my entire generation. Right now, I’m inspired by the lyrics of my friend. Because since my parents passed away in 2008, I became a little dry musically in terms of a song for somebody. So I am using his phone, and I’m putting music in his phone, basically right now, so I think I’m getting old.
Norman 20:47
Hayden was very excited when we were told that you’re going to be on the podcast and I know, he’s been sitting back wanting to ask you a few questions. Hey, I don’t know, Hayden, if you explained to Dori that you’re a musician as well.
Hayden 21:07
No, it hasn’t come up yet. But yeah, it’s funny Dori, I looked at all the credits and everything and I realized that actually, I’ve listened to a few of the albums that you produced. I’m a huge fan of Gal Costa, especially too and I actually studied with John Patitucci a few years ago, he was my teacher at Berklee.
Dori 21:31
I recorded Los Angeles too.
Hayden 21:34
Yeah, I’m curious, actually, how was it working with John?
Dori 21:38
Very good. He was a nice guy. American musicians, they treat me so well. There was not that conflict musically. I work with pop musicians. Jeff Porcaro was the drummer and so many, I forget names, I’m getting old. But I would go across that with Jobim and many others, my sister, and in the United States, like Sarah Fogg and John Bateson and I met some important musicians and I remember I played a song for him. This is a curious fact. I play a song for him and it’s called Old Piano and then there’s a change melodically and harmonically and back to the key and he looked at me. I hate to say, he wished I had the same idea musically and I told him, I’ll give you the song. Can you give me four year royalties? Yeah. Would be nice. Yeah.
Hayden 23:05
I was curious. I mean, I’ve only really recently gotten into different styles of Brazilian music, and really listening more in depth. But I know, there’s a huge shift in Brazilian music around the 50s and 60s, especially going from Bossa Nova into MPB. How did it feel in the music scene at that time? Did you feel like a cultural shift, where people were kind of pushing back against Bossa Nova a little bit?
Dori 23:38
At the time, really, a lot of critics in terms of this new thing that was brought by Gilberto, basically because we call the Bossa Nova or here they call the Bossa Nova, the way that Gilberto was there to play with plays the guitar and that’s the start, and then creation, listen, American music like, the West Coast jazz, and then Miles Davis and Coltrane and so not really Coltrane, but basically the West Coast jazz and it had a great influences that so it’s a great time, including Barney Kessel, American a guitar player, he played an album with London. It’s beautiful, she sang Give me a river. This was a big hit for her here in Brazil and also, they get a lot the way that modern Brazilian guitarists play with Barney Kessel and Chet Baker. The album is called Chet Baker Sings. So, Bossa Nova became very influential that kind of, at the time. So if you put this with the stuff, we have a lot of musicians that came to Brazil to record like Ferdinand, and made an entire album. He was a pioneer in his day, he recorded in Brazil with a lot of musicians. So there’s something very Jazzy, which I liked very much and he came with those people and also by the empower, that have the name of this guy, but he’s not he’s a guitar player and composer from Brazil and his father gave the name of Bob and Bow. So Bossa Nova, it’s really a great change in the way that the music, but always with some other information in terms of music, and we, at this point, everything was kind of the same. Bossa Nova was like I said, something new that in 1962. As you probably know, in the Carnegie Hall, the Bossa Nova was presented to the United States and suddenly, they fell in love with everything. I remember Gilberto was there and Miles and Gil Evans, my heroes. They knew that I was a friend of Gilberto that was living in New York at the time. Say, the Brazilian musician introduced me to them and they say, Mike, can you talk to Roberto and see if we can make an album together and the funny thing I came to Gilberto and very happy.
Dori 27:20
Yeah, no and actually, if you think there was a motion in terms of musically, the orchestrations, which is one of the biggest influences in my musical view at the time, Gil was a master. I think he was a Canadian. I think he was from Canada. Like, another one here, Rob McConnell. Musician. Oh my God and I heard that Gil is from Canada, too.
Hayden 27:57
Yeah, you’re right.
Dori 27:58
So you guys, you should take your heads. Yeah. Bossa Nova was the beginning of my generation.
Hayden 28:11
I know I’ve mentioned this on the podcast before but I think you’re maybe the most qualified to talk about it. But I read an interview of Nora Liao and she said that there was like a push back against Bossa Nova because it started to feel alienating, it was that specific word. I don’t know if you could elaborate on that. I had never heard that mentioned before this interview that I read.
Dori 28:38
Well, I worked with her, I produced two albums for her and also the military government. I directed the musical parts with her as well. She was a princess, family living in a big apartment in front of the sea. So they call her the muse of Bossa Nova and I think she was trying to get out of this label work or label thing. Yeah but she was a very good composer not founder but she was described in releasing some great altersso she came into the Samba stuff but not really a senior with that and she was into but an activist in terms of social change. She come from the Bossa Nova to the Samba and I don’t see her as a singer and I think that opinion about it about Bossa Nova, it’s make her a little more early and then she was thinking that Bossa Nova was very important and she used during a time, and then she became a change of styles, but she was a darker.
Hayden 30:32
Hey guys and gals. That’s it for part one of our interview Dori Caymmi. Make sure to tune in next time to hear the rest of the interview. As always, make sure to like and subscribe to the podcast wherever you get your podcasts. That’s enough for me and I’ll see you next time.
Hayden 0:04
Hey guys and gals, welcome to part two of our interview with Dori Caymmi. If you haven’t heard part one yet, make sure to go back and check that one out. Also, just to note, we do have some connection problems with this interview. So the audio might not be quite at the standard we’re used to. But regardless, I think we’ve got a great interview over this. So once again, here’s a great Brazilian composer and arranger, Dori Caymmi.
Norman 0:36
Well, Hayden, I was just gonna let you ask a few more questions because of the musical side. So I don’t know if you want to just continue on and just let you know your old man sit back, and watch you.
Hayden 0:48
You got a break this time.
Norman 0:49
Yeah, there you go.
Hayden 0:52
So one question I thought of actually, based on what you were saying before, I feel like it seems a bit more rare now, for musicians and arrangers to really specialize in one thing and really perfect it now. I feel like often people are told to kind of go wider, and be able to do many things just because of the nature of the music industry now, but with your experience over the years, like, do you think the work that you took on like, help to find your style? Do you have always kind of had a specific style in mind that you’ve been trying to go after?
Dori 1:40
I told you at my school of music was Brazilian music and American music, basically. But I listened to classical, because I’m a big Debussy and Ravel, right? I think those guys my love for music and that, but I always had something in beauty, beauty and it’s like when I think orchestra, I never think in something that is going to work with the purpose of selling albums and so I’m never not a very good pop guy. So I work with the times and I appreciate that many, many players in the United States. But, my vision was always to my principles. Yeah, I don’t think I change at all, because it’s getting worse. I always love the aesthetics of the painters, the reality of proceeding writers. So my music is always based on compositions in terms of the way that I play guitar. I try to be Brazilian all the time, and I don’t think it’s work the other way because I don’t know how to play the other way. It’s like, if you asked me to play some chess, or, you know, I love jazz, but I cannot play Jazz, I love to listen to it. Listen to my entire life and the orchestrators basically, except those two Canadians, it’s American music. Since the arranger like Stuart Hall for Frank Sinatra in the 40s and guys, I loved him. He’s just passed away. But for me, it’s going to be still the guy. I don’t know if you know him, but he wrote The Shadow and he wrote the Mona Lisa. He wrote the arrangements for this album, basically, the arrangement. So if you hear him, it’s so poetic in terms of music. It’s a big heart, and so I think he was my guy. My senior, it was in the beginning and then you have Quincy Jones as arranger, and that Jones and so I always love this. So if you ask me, I’m a Brazilian composer that loves classical jazz in orchestrations and it’s funny because orchestrators are the ones that the orchestrator has, like, nobody pays attention to this. I was listening to Jeremy Lubbock. It’s a guy from South Africa and he was an arranger, Spring is here. I cried, literally because I, there’s nothing I can say, I want to beat this guy. Now, I want to write like this. So I’m always trying to go in that direction. The beauty, not the money, not the rhythm, nothing matter. It’s the beauty, to get emotional about and I learned from the Americans from those Canadians that I spoke about and classically, can the jazz play, Wes Montgomery, John Coltrane, my favorite detail, Bill Evans, this is the guy I have him on my left side. So music for me is this, and then also, the Brazilian guys like Jobim, my father, those guys they live in my heart. So my music is this.
Hayden 6:42
Other than your parents passing away, were there any other points in your career where you felt that you were going dry or that you’re having a block?
Dori 6:54
Yes, in the 80s, the middle of the 80s, there was a wave of Brazilian rock and roll. So the space of other kinds of music was kind of down a little and for orchestrators like me, and producers and stuff was really, so I went to the United States, I work in 1990 and then we moved to work for Quest Records that used to be to Quincy Jones. We were invited by Louis Velazquez, there was a CEO or something and she called, she offered this recording deal and then Quincy was associated with Warner at the time. They gave us the green card and those so the first 15 years in the United States was a blessing and then became difficult musically for the music. It’s not easy, but it’s still steady. I’m 77 but I still think that the new generation is going to be a chance to play their stuff. There’s a bunch of guys here in Rio, São Paulo, in the Northeast of Brazil in the south and so, but I left Brazil, because it was painful for me to stay. So I got in touch with the guys and to be friends. This is a blast. Like, those guys are my heroes. I worked with him. So it’s so beautiful and certainly the day they’ve asked me to sing, not him but Sydney Pollack, at the end of the film called Ivana. I don’t know if you saw Robert Redford, and about the Cuban Revolution, started in the 80s. So Dave wrote the soundtrack, and I sang it and the title, but they never gave me credit because Pollack never told the union that I’m gonna be singing. So they never gave me credit. But anyway, that kind of, to get in touch with those people that you listen to. So I left the country and I was so happy in America, we have a beautiful life.
Norman 10:07
You were talking about something a little earlier on about when you came to America and you were working, I forget who it was. But you said, Oh, he was a nice guy. American musicians are nice to work with. Do you find that different cultures around the world, there’s a different attitude and music or just attitude with working with other musicians.
Dori 10:32
In respect, because when they call me, they know what I am, what I do. So those musicians they work with style, or when they call you to do something for them, they know what kind of man I am, what kind of music I do and there’s some stuff. A very funny, the other day, a friend of mine brought to Brazil a group of Japanese people. This kid is a great singer and not to brag, he’s a fantastic singer, and brought a group of Japanese to play in Brazil and with them, a guitar player that was playing it back, exactly like me and better than me, like quartz, all my things, and I used to record like a two or three guitars in the same cuts with different sounds, and he was mixing everything, but he played like, Oh my god, and he played all my songs. Okay, play exactly and then we went through it and the funny thing, I’m not gonna tell you the end of the joke that I made, but it’s funny because that and I asked for a fish to eat and he told the guys in Japanese and say I want this thing that he asked, I want to eat steak. Okay, so the guy asked for the desserts, something and then the guy said that easy. I want to think that his drinking and if I told my wife, Get out of here. Take a cab and go home. Yeah, but it’s funny because this happened in places like Japan or other one day people the way I play what kind of music and what kind of musician came to me. So when they call me, they already know you know what I do or they like me for a reason. I don’t know. So it’s always a pleasant thing with one exception that a singer in the United States called me to play with two very important musicians. One then was the police the group, he was the producer and the girl asked me to play the guitar and because they wrote a Bossa Nova, which the beginning it’s a problem because the way that they see Bossa Nova and it’s a very American way to see Bossa Nova and I play a different route back. So I started to play and then the bass player told me that stop the way that they play guitar in Brazil. Well, I’ve been doing this for 35 years. Nobody told me that in Brazil and I said then, you know what, keep the money and nice to meet you and see you and call somebody else. Actually I called them Charlie bird, and I left. Those things sometimes happen when they don’t know who you are, or the music that you do.
Norman 14:31
Well, the other thing I’m interested in, you were talking about this and you briefly went over it, you got a quote that was simple. Save the forest. So a lot of people don’t understand what’s going on in Brazil right now. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Dori 14:48
With Donald Trump and our president, I believe they know. The thing is there’s people planting a lot of soils, do a lot of corn and they expanding their lands inside of reservations and looking for gold or to farms and stuff like that and this year we had the record of staff from the entire North of Brazil, which is the Amazon in the Pantanal, which is a risk. It’s a life, an animal life paradise. So we still say in here, we have save the forest. Because this new politicians in Brazil, those are the ones that are saying that the world is round, because it’s a NASA thing. Because in reality there, the world is flat. So when you deal with people, they’re going to put asphalt in the Amazon. That’s the hope that they want to do. So for me, the most important thing is to save the forest and right now, but Black Lives Matter too, because it’s getting violent. We have a lot of racism too in Brazil. It’s a little disguise, but still we have. So things are very serious and we have to wait for this bunch of stupid people. When your saliva falls from your, like your drunk or something in your tie and Nelson Rodriguez told the one this guy is leaving saliva in their eyes and something like that and so they’re going to destroy the world. So they want to play also the ocean. We have islands from the continents, they want to make a Cancun. It’s a beautiful place for people, almost no people. To go there, you have to make a reservation. Now they want to make it like a great Hawaii thing. So, it’s save the Brazil from stupid people, mostly. So the forest is the biggest thing to save.
Norman 17:49
That would make a great bumper sticker. Save Brazil from stupid people.
Dori 17:54
Oh, yes. I think I’m gonna make this and use it in my car.
Norman 18:03
No, I was gonna say these are both two quotes, Save the Forest, Black Lives Matter and sometimes we get on to other quotes, but those are so important in today’s society. So yeah, thank you for sharing your views on that.
Dori 18:20
Oh, yes, it’s necessary. After 77 years, I never saw so many stupid people in the world right now. It’s worse, I was thinking about it. It’s terrible. Especially here in my country, in the United States with this new government. There’s nothing you can do, because they think they run the world. It’s like a little Mussolini kind of behavior. So we live in that kind of, it’s not a dictatorship. Thank God. But it’s close. It’s very close. Iit’s stupid, you know, the people with the profile of books in public basis, so be very careful with that.
Norman 19:24
So, a lot of the time to get where you have to go, we talked to everybody that comes on the podcast about this. Sometimes there’s hurdles in your life that you have to overcome and what were some of the hurdles that you had to overcome to become successful?
Dori 19:42
Well, one of the things is the name of my father. Because when I started off the press for saying, it’s a junior. So I took a different way to orchestration and producing to basically avoid the criticism, because actually there was an international Rio de Janeiro the first one in ’66, I won this festival and the guy was saying that, His father wrote that song, he’s like, he doesn’t know anything. Probably his father wrote the song and so that’s probably the obstacle in my life. The rest, it’s like, music, just music and I’m very happy with that in the beginning for and I had the chance to be protected musically by Jobim, and other important guys from the music business. I hate to call it business, but that’s the way it is. Yeah, I used to be a little radical about the music business. It’s like, I’m not a business guy. But I survived with music. So it’s my business. Anyway, I was protected by important musicians, like I told you before, and they covered and they helped me with this, saying many times that I was a very talented guy, that it had nothing to do with my father. But it was complicated at the beginning. I have no trauma. No, not really.
Norman 21:49
So let’s switch it around. Were some successful moments in your life, like top successes that you loved?
Dori 21:57
Musically, I’m receiving back now, 60 years of musical life. I was 16 when I started, I was 17. I’m 77. So, musically, it’s this. Actually I have a song called Like a Lover, it’s the most recorded in the United States, by many, many artists, but that was it. So I’m not a famous guy and so musically, that’s it. In my personal life, my wife, Elena, and without her, I don’t know how to get on any computer or, I don’t know how to pay bills with cell phones. She helps me with that. So we’re very happy in the mountains and with the animals around, a beautiful river behind the house. It’s nice to hear, it’s very nice and it’s a great retirement still working. This year, I made more than 40 songs. So I am a happy guy through working, and to activate my brakes. I don’t want to be, right now, I just wrote instrumental arrangements for a piano player friend of mine and I have projects to work with the singers and I have two albums. So we’re still working and the price that I have musically is that some kids, they love me, so I’m very happy with that, and my love for music also.
Norman 24:18
Oh, very, very good. So Hayden, last chance. Any more questions?
Hayden 24:26
I think that’s that’s all I got on my end.
Dori 24:29
I have a little story to tell you about Canada because the first time that I went there, I fell in love with the countries. We flew to, I think it’s Montreal, in the East Coast. We cross into Canada, Winnipeg, Calgary, Alberta. Those places, I don’t know, it was like 40 below and I was in a little restaurant and suddenly the guy called, went to my table and said, I think somebody stole your coat and I said, well, we’re like probably 300 to 400 yards from the hotel and it’s okay, I walked. So the police guy that came to report, to make note of the stealing or something. He had a buffalo in his head. I looked at the guys and I had like three or four shots of scotch or something to walk up. I froze almost and the funny thing is, it’s like two in the morning. Somebody knocked at my door, and there were two police guys. Is this your coat? Yes. But you know, I’m sorry. He’s gonna stay in Canada, as a proof of stealing. So goodbye. So no coat. Oh, so they came to say Is this yours? Yes and see, but you know, not now. Give me your address. That was it. I never saw the coat anymore. That was so cold. I put the bet up and I went, and I felt a lot of pain in every part of the body. It’s the worst thing that happened in Canada, the rest is beautiful. The country is beautiful. But it was white, it was wintertime. I couldn’t see. But I know by heart and by pictures and by movies that it’s a beautiful country. I would live there for sure. It’s so beautiful.
Norman 27:11
In the summer, not in the winter.
Dori 27:12
Exactly. Yeah, it is funny because Sadao, you know Sadao Watanabe? Music player in Japan. I went there to play with him and I told him, man, this city, I can’t remember the name of the city. I’m too old for that. But I told him I would live here. It’s so beautiful and he told me in wintertime, very cold. Summertime, very hot. Canada just like Canada. But anyway, thank you guys. I’m curious, how long is your beard?
Norman 27:56
What was that?
Dori 27:58
The beard and how long it takes to have one like this?
Norman 28:09
This would have taken about two two and a half years. But I burnt it off. I burned all of this by making hamburgers. So it’s finally come back. It was kind of like this before, because all of this in here, burnt.
Dori 28:27
It’s beautiful.
Norman 28:29
Oh, thank you.
Dori 28:33
So anyway, thank you guys very much for the opportunity.
Norman 28:36
Hey, we had a pleasure. It was an honor to speak with you and usually at the end of the podcast. We ask our guests, Do they know a person? Do they know a guy? Do you have anybody that you could recommend to come on to the podcast?
Dori 28:57
Yeah. My wife is voting for one saxophone player in the United States. A very good arranger and singer. It’s a beautiful guy and he is interested in Brazilian music too. I just recorded a Brazilian Samba with him and by this miracle of internet.
Norman 29:25
That would be perfect. If you could make the introduction. What’s his name?
Dori 29:30
Scott Mayo.
Norman 29:39
Ah, okay, Got it.
Dori 29:42
Scott Mayo. He is very musical. Incredible arranger. Elena can send you the whole information about him and he’s very knowledgeable about Brazilian music too, if it helps.
Norman 30:00
Perfect. Well, that sounds fantastic and we have to say thank you to Elena, too, because behind the scenes, she got you onto the internet.
Dori 30:15
Yes, true. She helps with the English too, because I was living and making music and my contact with the Americans were very limited and she worked for them for six or seven years with jewelry and stuff like that. So she speaks fluent English. I’m a disaster.
Norman 30:38
I don’t think so. You did perfect.
Dori 30:41
What kind of musician is your son? Tell me what kind of music he plays. What about the instrument?
Hayden 30:48
So I’m primarily a double bass player. But I play piano, guitar, electric bass, as well and primarily jazz. Yeah, primarily, but I also do play rock and I’ve actually it’s funny, I’ve recorded two albums with Brazilian musicians.
Dori 31:08
Oh, really?
Hayden 31:09
Yeah. More like Brazilian jazz, kind of fusion.
Dori 31:15
Yeah, it’s nice of you to play rock and roll, at least to make some money.
Hayden 31:20
This is true.
Hayden 31:22
I wish you a great career in your life as a musician. I hope you can play stuff that you like, and stuff imposed by history or something like that.
Hayden 31:35
Yeah, I try to. But thank you.
Dori 31:37
Like I said, Guys, behave yourself.
Norman 31:42
Alright, Dori. Well, thank you so much again, and you have a great evening.
Dori 31:50
Thank you, you too my friend. Thank you very much.
Hayden 31:58
That concludes our interview with Dori Caymmi. Make sure to tune in next week for our interview with Ian Thompson, who is a British author. He’s written such books as The Dead Yard, Tales of Modern Jamaica, and Primo Levi, The Elements of Life and of course, many, many, many more. Touching on the importance of great and poor teachers, along with his writing process, and research tactics that I certainly would try today. That’s enough for me, and I’ll see you next time.
